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On this episode of The Truth about Massage Therapy Podcast, Krzys interview Jennie Parke Matheson

BHP022 -What is a Hot stone massage?


Jennie began her career in the performing arts, initially as a stage & production manager, then as an arts administrator – before moving into the corporate world to produce conferences and large-scale events.

During the 1990’s she joined The Terrence Higgins Trust as a volunteer and worked in several capacities over a 6 year period, including co-managing the North London Buddy group and devising & running a series of sex education workshops for secondary school pupils.

Several years later, having received Healing for the first time, she looked further into energy work and its associated therapies and decided to train. Two years later she was accredited as a Healer. To augment her energy work she studied Chakra Psychology and Crystal Therapy and explored Feng Shui, Dowsing and Earth Healing.

Aware of the need for increased physical contact when working with her clients, she qualified in Deep Tissue Massage, then added Hot Stone, Pregnancy and IHM to her repertoire. Jennie established her business, White Wave, in 2008 and has been practising as a healer/holistic massage therapist ever since.

She is a qualified Massage in Schools Instructor, running touch workshops in Primary schools; and delivers one-on-one training in massage for use in hospitals & hospices, having worked in the Complementary Therapy Department at the Royal Free Hospital in Hampstead, giving massage on the wards.

With Earle Abrahamson, MTI’s chair, Jennie founded Hands-On Training in 2012 – and as an accredited MTI Tutor teaches the practical and business elements of the MTI Diploma Course in Holistic Massage. Hands-On also presents a diverse range of CPD workshops and in autumn 2017 will start its new Sports Diploma Course.


Favourite Quote:

“politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies,”

Tag a Guest Game:

Sharon Bull

Links mentioned in this episode:

White Wave – Jennie Practice


Hands-On Training Massage School

Phone:                020 8444 7570
Twitter:              @HandsOnN10
Instagram:       hands_on_training_n10

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KRZYS:                     welcome Jenny again and thank you for joining me here at Busy Hive Podcast.

JENNY:                     Thank you. I’m looking forward to this Krzys!

KRZYS:                    So Jenny’s amazing, we’ve already had a podcast with…. Previously you know been really well received and we loved you, Jenny, and that’s why we brought you in here again, just because you give us really good insight from your experience and you know amazing knowledge and as you know our flow, and we’re going to go for a couple of questions just introduce you briefly you know to find out a bit more about yourself, not as a therapist but more personal so we just get to know you a bit more. We had an amazing interview with Jenny already and if you go to our website was podcast number twelve and we talked about energy and energetic healing. Where we learn amazing stuff! So this before we go to today and on today you know interview subject which is pretty amazing, and I’m really excited about because I’m really curious what is it? You know and what is it? And how do you use it? But we’re not going to tell you what. So Jenny, we always start with you know our interviews with guest’s favorite quote. Can you tell us what is your quote and why? The last quote I remember was the quote from Project Sam. Not project Sam, what I’m saying the serenity prayer is there’s something similar?

JENNY:                     No, it’s very different. I love the serenity prayer; I think that’s a very honest way of looking at yourself, But I also have a sense of humor as well as being quite spiritual. One of the people who I love, who I find very funny, who I can’t stop loving and be dealing all my life is Groucho Marx. And we all know the famous quote from Groucho Marx about that he would want to belong to a club that he was allowed to be a member of, and I was looking at some of his quotes because I was trying to remember one and they were too! I’m afraid too that a very Particular . . . well, which is just one of those wonderful throwaway lines of the use in a phone. Sorry, there’s an ambulance going by, there’s always something going on in the big ambulances and fire engines going by outside. One of the mysteries I never forget to face, but in your case, I’ll be glad to make an exception. which is just his rudeness, and of course one would never say that to a client, but this is the one which I find actually quite shocking and so pertinent, and he said this nearly a hundred years ago and it says “politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies,” and I think in relationship therapy which is quite interesting that this happens not without a cause, but also in relationship those things which are really causing a great distress at the moment one is (Inaudible, 03:09), and the other is Donald Trump. That is so relevant, and we’re in a world that is controlled by this and everything that we do comes almost flying in the face of this. I mean it is likely that by the end of September, there won’t be a world if North Korea presses the button. However, if they don’t press the button we’re still dealing with this, and I think it’s actually quite useful to be aware of this, and it also tells me the Groucho Marx was a great thinker. He wasn’t just a rude man with throwaway lines that made me laugh ridiculous he was also very wise. So I’m afraid because of it back down to Sense and Sensibility, but I think that is a wonderful quote and I apply it in my mind and find ways of actually dealing with and not letting it control my life.

KRZYS:                    So how do you . . . how do you find the ways to deal with the situation like that? Things which stress you out and things which in a way… Well, out of our control get?

JENNY:                     Well, it’s a really good question and it’s something that I talk about quite often with my clients, because I do not only hands-on hands therapy, but I do speaking listening therapy. This is all the time people are dealing with this more and more and more. And it’s a case of adopting two ways of looking at it. There’s the mindfulness approach, but it has to do with a personal focus in… If you allow certain feelings to impinge upon your daily life, you will never escape from it and you can get on with what you’re doing. and you have to find a way to let that go, there’s an analogy of the problems, all the things you have to do, that you put them all in folders and you label them A, B, and C and the really important ones are A, the less important to B, and the least important to C. and you put them in three draws and you shut the draws, and it’s up to you as to whether you tackle item A first and clear the decks or you address item C and remove that so that you can get on with A and B. but it has to do with time management, activity management, and making sure that things just don’t get in the way all the time, If you do what we do, if you do what I do. I love what I do, so when I’m in a session with my clients even if I have to remember to go get my car ready, to pay the tax or something, that goes out of my mind for the hours that am with the client and I think we’re very blessed to work in a field… all the people that I know, who I’ve trained, who I’ve worked with, who I see on the Facebook groups are passionate about what they do. and yes, we all have our problems but I think what we’re very good at doing is focusing on that, and you can look at the photographs of people when they’re teaching, or when they are learning, or when they’re giving and they are completely absorbed in what they’re doing, and I’m very glad that I have that. So I can actually not go away and train to be a sniper and go to America and take out Donald Trump otherwise, There are other people doing it, but it is in focus and mindfulness I think are the two core elements of being able to live your life because we don’t… we have so many external influences we’ve got to find ways for them not to be enough to face the whole time.

KRZYS:                     That’s really good advice like I would add to it you know a couple of things to it. Yea it’s definitely mindfulness, and from what I learn from my massage work as well is something special from the mobile, I would have to be very adaptable and I had to be very Improvise and adapt to the ways you know what I had to put in my massage couch, or how to work with the clients some of the clients you know are either elderly, or have conditions which they are unable to get on the couch and I had to be adaptable and Improvise.

JENNY:                     Yeah!

KRZYS:                               And I think that would a kind to teach … well, apart from you know massage its amazing thing. It taught me so well you know how to be grounded and a bit more… It’s still hard I’m getting better at it to be more you know grounded and present which is not easy, but his words always been you know being able to adapt and improvise, whatever life ruined at you even either it’s a trump or breaks it, people always ask me because you know am from Poland, a foreigner in this country and it’s like what do you think about breaks it are you worried? Are you worrying? What’s going to happen? I was like I don’t know, but actually, nobody knows first of all sand I think if we going to think about this a worry, that doesn’t change we can do nothing, we can’t-do much about it. What we can do we can just improvise and adapt to have this what’s going to you know what’s going to happen? Or bring this to us. So when he breaks it happens there will be lot of Changes and these changes we are for everyone but I think if we’re going to start thinking about I am going to adopt, I’m not going to change it, it’s going to affect me but I’ll just have to adapt to it and make it make it work in that kind of thing.

JENNY:                                 I agree with you, because we see it happening but nothing’s going to happen overnight, so it is a case of adapt tension I like what you said earlier about facing challenges particularly, when you are doing home massage Where you don’t know what conditions you’re going to find, what you are going to apply, and you have to adapt to be able to cope with your clients, you know those of you who have elderly clients who turn up. You find they can’t get on the table but you know they probably can’t and so you find other ways to work with them where they’re comfortable and I think that’s the joy of what we do because we have a very poor agreement. if we’re doing the same thing day in day out over and over that’s when you become bored, that’s when the other thoughts start getting in the way, and you start thinking about what you’re going to have for supper in the middle of a massage. We don’t have that because we, our holistic approach, is that we focus entirely on the person that we’re working with, whoever that may be and whatever their needs are.

KRZYS:                                Exactly you know we have a client… there’s a help that comes down, there’s intention of creating tension and we creating the healing.

JENNY:                                  Exactly.

KRZYS:                                So thank you really for sharing that, it’s always amazing to experience you know different people ideas, and the ways they deal with things and the way how they work. So you know here at Busy Hive we really focus on the beginning of our journey and we’re already you know your story and you can listen to extend story About you and how you become a massage therapist, but let’s… can you tell us you know how… let’s connect this to the point of the subjects what we’re going to talk about today. So how did you get started? And how did you get to this therapy? But we’re going to talk about it later on. Let’s say we’re going to talk about hot stone massages. So how did you get started? And how you know where did hot stone massage came?

JENNY:                                 Well, it was as you know from what I said before I can’t remember quite what I said, but I said I had come to a watershed in my life, where I was looking for new experiences and out of left field ended up training as a healer, and a systemic therapist and in the middle of that, as I’ve described having had an experience with a client, it became very important to have touch therapist too. Then it’s very good to have no touch because of people, therefore, have a therapeutic experience which is not invasive particularly for certain people, but it became abundantly clear that touch was also a really vital Integra part of healing when using healing with a capital H in the bigger picture. And through a colleague of mine, I was recommended to do a massage course, and as I said I had no idea. I had not heard of N.T.I. I didn’t know really much about Invacure levels, and I was recommended to the course which was the Bodyology course which was spinal and I went to meet him and I found him fascinating and I agreed to do this course. it was really only whilst I was in there that I began to understand that I was learning a higher level of better massage, then I ended up going down the high tech (Inaudible, 11:31) route that I had a very good teacher who was passionate about what he knew, what he wanted to teach. And that is a consequence I would have a really strong skill set by the time I had completed the course which I did and I actually completed my massage therapy training at the same time as I finished my second year as a healer, so I was accredited qualified in both of them all at the same time. And that became quite interesting because the healing has been my first choice for the massage coming subsequently. What I was curious about is how people would react and which way they would jump, because massage is more accessible to most people. Except that if you do have healing and energy work you appeal to a slightly different group of people. Haven’t actually got trained and got qualified. I then started to think about where I was going to go with that and set up my organization, my training space, my equipment and I put together of a small very simple website initially said people knew about me and started bringing clients. and what I knew immediately, as I wanted to broaden my horizons and the hot stone had come up whilst I was training in that as part of the ten hours it received massage, I wanted to get a broad spectrum all of what I received… as if I going to cough… And draw that hot stone massage. So I asked if I could have a cough now hot stone massage which I would then write up as part of my ten hours received. So I trotted onto his studio in the snow, and I realized as soon as I was in the door, that I didn’t actually know what hot stone massage was. I thought it was one thing, and I found out but it was another and we’ve all seen the photographs pretty girl, fresh gorgeous girls beautifully made up, lying on a couch in their arms underneath their heads flying in the air, sometimes if you ever see in the background they’ve got a nice little neat row, a pretty stones on their back

KRZYS:                                Yes.

JENNY:                                 That gives people the idea that a hot stone massage… if you take the word message out of the equation is you like that in a beautiful environment, with hot stones on your back and you just enjoy the heat.

KRZYS:                                Is it like that?

JENNY:                                 One pointed out to me to know he was going to message me with the Stones, and I thought oh my God! What have I got myself into here? But you know he always talked about it so (Inaudible, 14:05) take a deep breath, I did a short consultation with them, and I got on the table and I have to say that I didn’t enjoy it particularly, and there were two reasons why. I love massage and what I really like about it is the personal touch of being massaged my hands and fingers, where you get that level of connectivity. I like that very much and one thing that I had thought about some years later, was that it occurred to me that I massage the way I like to receive, so I gave the way I want to receive. When I went back and read a couple of my essays, I wrote my essays until I forgot my Brake, but that was true I didn’t enjoy the stone that much because it was impersonal I loved the heat, And the other thing that was a little bit challenging as those of you who knows (Inaudible, 14:58) that he’s also an osteopath and he’s quite strong, and it was a little bit too firm for me and even though I asked him to calm it down, it still too firm for me. So I accepted it, I understood it because I was there to learn. But I probably won’t have another one again however, I then got up, got dressed and left and I can’t tell you how fabulous I felt. I felt that I am completely ironed out, I have poor posture… Swayback and problems of my shoulder sometimes, and I slacked when I walk, why? I don’t know and I’m not that tall, but I felt as if I was walking till it gave me a completely different feel and I thought sometimes when you’re in therapy you don’t necessarily like process but you like the outcome

KRZYS:                                Yea.

JENNY:                                In the same way as people who sometimes have to go to sports massage, will know that it’s going to be extremely painful and they will spend a couple of days in discomfort but at the end of that, the damage they have done will be on the road to repair, and so I came away thinking this really has benefits and there were some people who won’t love it and some people who love it, but it was very important. it was good to do that and what I say to my students is if you can in part of your ten hours receive, get some different things in there so you begin to have an outstanding what else you can offer and once I qualified and… although you don’t have to see beauty in your first year after qualification doesn’t mean to say you don’t you don’t have to but it doesn’t mean to say you don’t need to and I decided as my very first (Inaudible, 16:41) day about three or four months after I qualified I did draws two days course and learn how to do it, and that was back you know maybe ten years ago now. And I’ve been operating as a hot stone massage therapy service since. I don’t have huge amounts of course for it, but I do probably do a dozen of seven years and more around this time of the year, before and after Christmas for this cold wet, not during the summer. I don’t do hot stone massage during summer. But it’s great to do, and it’s a skill which is absolutely worth having for anybody who’s thinking about whether they should or whether they shouldn’t.


KRZYS:                                Definitely, it Just something which is a great addition to you know to offer to the clients you know at the point when you qualify in one (Inaudible, 17:28) and you trying to bring new clients, new experiences or something you just another modality which I think is very, yes very good way, or very beneficial and even especially I would say especially in this kind of a relaxing environment and kind of bit of influences in it, but by Exactly it just, It’s completely different from how it looks in the pictures do you know

KRZYS:                                 Okay

JENNY:                                 And you can do you can use it as part of massage; you don’t have to do all stones. I mean in you are going to be doing after hours beforehand because you can sit up straight off by applying a hot stone to a body. so you’re still going to do after all you’re still going to pal Pate, you will still do a consultation if there is a new client, and then you will decide which areas of the body will benefit from it and you also decide which stones you’re going to use, because they come in all shapes and sizes and I think it’s a lovely (Inaudible, 18:47) to have and it gives people the benefit… I mean my clients sometimes they come for a hot stone message, some for a deep tissue massage sometimes it’s for a chat, sometimes it’s for better healing or chats about it. if there is any. . . if you’ve got one of what do they call it? A portfolio of skills it makes you more attractive to clients. but it means so you don’t have to go away and spend a year and another two and a half grand doing a sports diploma, or pregnancy diploma, or whatever it happens to be you can use something really quite quickly.

KRZYS:                                Yes.

JENNY:                                I think that’s actually quite don know

KRZYS:                                 So that’s going to be again directed. So can you tell us one of the challenges as a new therapist when you started the hot stone?


JENNY:                                  I think what I mentioned before is a new therapist is really about confidence, being sure that you actually know what you’re doing, there’s a vast difference between being a very competent therapist and working as a student with people who like what you do, but they don’t pay. There’s a completely different ball game when you step out the other side, and you advertising somebody comes along who wants to give you money for it and you need to be sure that what you are doing is actually worth it. The only way you can find out that is the more you do the more feedback you get. With hot stones that are also useful, because by giving you another string to your bio that is also helpful in terms of confidence they’re attracting clients, and it also means you don’t have to do the same thing all the time. It’s quite nice not to do the same thing. The other thing I’d recommend as an aside is if you don’t learn it in your qualification how to do hands-free, because that again changes how it feels to the client saves your hands, because in a way it helps save your hands because you are using it differently and you can provide a different experience the client within the same session. With the hot stone, the training is vital because it’s a skill. It’s a hand skill on how to use the stones will get to it, but it’s pretty obvious what the challenges are going to be of what you do? How you do it? And with whom you do it, because different bodies are going to present different problems, you know you can imagine you’ve got very thin, very bony knobby client you haven’t got a great deal of flesh and muscle sketched out, and of course you don’t really want to hold stones on bones, and if you’ve got a very fleshy person it’s great because you can really get in there all the major parts of the body. But in this as a newbie, it is so important to get as much practicing as possible, an advice would be like assume you did a course where you qualified with other people keep doing spot massage, keep talking to each other, trying out new experiences, going back to teachers and asking questions, researching online and from the point of your MTI graduates. We’ve now not just added a Facebook page and the regional groups there’s also the MTI member group that’s such an important place to go to because there are lots of questions asked by people, where other people can ship in from how do I do this? How do I market myself? What happens if people don’t turn up and I lose the money? To ask the expert with all the different experiences and know everybody has because what we have is a combination of therapist, all of them bring something different to the table. So we have our own network and we’ve got our own support group, and it’s so vital that we use that. And then when you’re doing things like hot stone training, which you will only be-be training if you are already qualified. then you’re with a group of other qualified people who may not necessarily be your student peer group, exchanging ideas, exchanging thoughts, trying things out, talking to each other, how do you do that? How does that work? How does that feel for you? So incredibly important and what we’re looking for, the bottom line is validation. So if you’re massaging somebody in training and someone says oh! I really like that, what are you doing that something I would like to use? How brilliant is that? I think actually I do know what I’m doing, but at the same time someone might do something and say oh! I’m not quite sure about that, and then you will talk about how you can work it so it works. So you make it better or I have a couple of students in my current group who have are hyper mobile. There are certain movements which I’m really not good for them, so I said you just don’t have to do them there is not a requirement. You have got enough techniques at your fingertips (inaudible, 23:22) not to use to depending citation what your capabilities are as a therapist. If you can’t-do certain things you’ve got plenty of other things to use to make a client happy. there’s no point putting yourself through anxiety because of it, and that’s why it’s so beneficial to have that whole peer group community whether you’re a student, or qualified, or whatever you need to be part of the community, and I love this community that was part of, I’m delighted you know with the trumpet blow, Jenny Hampton is with us, because as a marketer she’s generating so much of these platforms, that we can communicate with each other, and see exactly what MTI needed. So thank you(Inaudible, 24:02) for having a baby Jenny Hampton and then making you’re all happen, because (inaudible, 24:07) we got you back we got Jenny doing marketing. So we really all blessed.

KRZYS:                                Way can complete with agreeing on the group that the team in MTI has Hanna, Jenny doing brilliant work in bringing lots of good stuff together and there is much more coming as well. I love to think what you just said exactly as a therapist, we sometimes we think we have to do things exactly the same way like this Dozens and sometimes we struggle because we can do it or we don’t and as you’ve said we don’t have to. That’s really good one because I remember me as well as a therapist, there was some stuff that I just, I couldn’t get on it, because it wasn’t flexible enough and that didn’t work, and I just kind of you know it puts me off. It did put me off and kind of you know what I said no I’m going to adapt that’s why I have this always adapt.

JENNY:                                 Exactly, perhaps what it’s about making it your own.

KRZYS:                                Making you make your own, adapt and event exactly if you know the tutor show you have to be because that’s you know proper body use and everything. If it doesn’t feel right don’t do it. Your body is your body just use it use your body the way you feel comfortable for you because if you are not comfortable the client won’t be comfortable.

JENNY:                                 Exactly and it’s all about I mean I know that we have guidelines in MTI about the way that we do things, but it doesn’t mean you have to replicate the same thing over and over. It simply about understands the techniques. What you are using them for and why? And then making sure you can perform the techniques to work for you in a way that would benefit the client.

KRZYS:                                Exactly

JENNY:                                 And the thing is none of it is wrong, many years ago I did a local 10k run I didn’t a whole load of people did a 10k run in nasty weather and a friend of mine who runs a sports course in Crouch End set up and there eight of us there massaging around Afterwards, and there were several students from different massage schools, and one of them came up to me and she said I’m really worried. And I said why? And she said everybody’s doing it differently and I said everybody is doing it right. It’s just different schools teach different ways, watch what people are doing if you see something you like that you think you can do, that will benefit stay there. There’s no way to it, there is no copyright on this. It’s different techniques and when I trained, there was a girl in my year we were the same height, we were often paired together. she now does mother of baby very successfully, but for several months we did swap seats and we were both exploring different skills and techniques, and she was getting me to use wax for instance as opposed to oil because she like using wax (Inaudible, 26:59) I still prefer oil, but all the people I know love wax. But we were doing different things she was also (Inaudible, 27:05) so she used her fingers differently and she works out a few techniques to use to help her fingers. And one of them was just fantastic, so I use that all the time and in fact, I teach it to my students, because my clients love it apart from the old one. He says no I don’t want that, and you put the legs no I don’t like it they won’t do it you don’t do it again, but it is the more skills, the more different methods you can of course on different parts of the body to better it makes you more flexible palm the palm and more interesting therapists, because it means if you don’t have a long-term plans, You don’t do the same thing every time. Because it’s very easy to actually turn out a very similar session, so I’ve got clients I see regularly I do different things and I do it intentionally so that they get different experiences and sometimes they say can you do what you did last time, or you know when you did that one, and you do that one can I have a bit of that because I really liked it, my body is telling me today That’s what I need. So it’s a case of having all these different capabilities that you can bring out as when necessary.

KRZYS:                               So let’s find out a bit more about another modality

JENNY:                                  About the hot stone?

KRZYS:                                About the hot stone therapy.

JENNY:                                  Okay.

KRZYS:                                 Let’s get you into this subject completely let’s just explain so exactly as we’ve said you know see on the pictures just this beautiful stones, beautiful bodies, there’s this really nicely shaped stones. What is hot stone therapy?

JENNY:                                  Okay, the stones are made from the bustle. Bustle is a porous rock, and it has to be porous so that it can absorb heat and hold heat. The stones also have to be like really beautiful pebbles on the beach they have to be of a particular shape. so they’re not round, they’re flat with oval edges and they will come in different shapes and different sizes, I’ve got one which is more like a prod with a quite shape and pointy end all those round which is a perfect acupressure stone, but they are mostly, will sit in the palm of my hand. Some are a bit bigger. Well, I’ve got one which is huge it’s a bit weird but I got my stones from draw, rather than buying them on the Internet, and it’s the kind of thing you can wrap it in a towel and put it on someone’s sacrament just leave that to let the heat leach into the body. The only problem is when you move it up it need a container because it’s too big.What you do with the Stones is that they need to be heated, the way to heat them is you don’t put them in a microwave because that will eventually crack them, and you don’t put them in. . . You can if you want to; put them in a pan of water but the recommendation we had was a large electric casserole. Mine’s about eighteen inches wide and about a foot deep and its oval. And it is some metal outside with the Bakelite interior, and you set the interior with water in it on the outside to put a lid on. And you turn it on, and you plug it in its electric and it slowly heat up

KRZYS:                                The slow cooker.

JENNY:                                  The slow cooker. It’s a cooking implement you can buy in John Lewis, or online Russell hobby, or one of these things. But it’s an electric slow cooker and in the same way, as you would do for instance chicken in a chicken brick you put it in cold, and they will roll up together. so you fill it with water, these are usually dark from inside now the stones are also usually dark, so allow it after day one to put a pale face cloth in the bottom, otherwise, you can’t actually see the Stones. But you make sure the stones are clean.

KRZYS:                                It’s a good thing.

JENNY:                                You put them in with the cold water you plug it in and it takes about an hour maybe an hour and a half to get a temperature to where the heat has actually gone right here into the stands, now when we see heat smaller ones quicker and larger ones slower Conversely, the smaller stones lose the heat quickly when you’re using them. so I actually, I have an enormous bag of stones from draw, and I would say I probably don’t use my (Inaudible, 31:12) them because they wash (Inaudible, 31:16) stones and toast stones which are tiny (Inaudible, 31:19) and this is to put between as they fall out and they lose the heat but I’ve got what I want to, but I’ve got about ten stones which are wonderful, beautiful shapes, lovely curves, fit in my hand, I’ve got larger ones for the back and the legs. And I’ve got smaller ones for arms and into the neck and things like that. so you cherry pick the ones you want to use. If you have a client coming that you know, that you know what their body shape and type is, see you can adjust your stones accordingly. If they’re a new client you just make sure you put a good selection. The way that you use them, is you actually massage with the Stones and the Stones are described as being an extension of your hand. So to set up the room, you need obviously to have the whole water cook up with you in the room, this has a tendency to make hot and slightly damp. So you need to make sure you’ve got a good airing as well because the room can end up for the condensation a smell of it watery. You need a strong grab to get stones out of the water. Don’t use anything plastic because they’re not strong enough and it will snap. Well, I use metal sieves or flat sieves hard ones that you can reach in and take the stone out. I also always have a lot of cold water, and you put the stone into the cold water to cool it because it’s probably too hot having come straight out of the hot water. Most people will have a different pain threshold, so you have to make an assessment how hot they can assess it? But if you can hold it in your hand without burning, then it will go on some bodies back and don’t forget you will be moving it on that back not sitting in one place. Once you called it to a temperature you think would be good, you then slather it in all you need a lot better, and then you’ll go over and start using it on the client. in preparation you also will need to cover the floor around where the massage table is with towels because you are going to be moving, you’re not going to have them on the table with you. they’re going to be in a separate place, therefore, the usual methodology of keeping a hand on the client as you move around the table and you may be (inaudible, 33:37) you can do. You do actually have to leave the client lying there for a short period of time, but it’s worthwhile explaining they will be able to hear you got the stones in and out. And when the stone has lost its warm and put in this back and getting another out. just a bit of what I’m doing so you’re maintaining communication, but the Stones, of course, are wet and they have a lot more oil on them, so you will be dripping them from the hot water cook up to the table. So you need to surround where you are with big thick towels to absorb it. If you drop it on the carpet and make it wet noisily and if you drop it on a lie low floor that makes it dangerous. So you need to make sure you’re covered so it’s a slightly different set of equipment so it’ll take you longer to set the room. Once that’s established your client understands what’s going on, you will still do (Inaudible, 34:24) because you need to get warmed up, you need to get really well warmed up before you actually attack them with the stone.   most important thing to remember is that the skin on different parts of the body is more or less tender, most people have strong skin on the back and shoulders because they some days walk around men without the shirts on. Remember that the skin on the glutes is probably skin that’s never seen the sunlight much, and you can always see the difference you do not want to be putting a hot stone on some bodies bottom without trying out on their shoulders first, and I’ve heard a couple of my colleagues tell me that they burnt people’s bottoms. Luckily it’s a nanosecond, but I don’t think they want to come back if you burn their bum.


KRZYS:                                Can I just stop it? Because that’s what is a set interesting now, because you only see the pictures that the stones are just used along the spine.

JENNY:                                 Yeah

KRZYS:                                So you actually use them on different parts of the body?

JENNY:                                              We use them on all parts of the body. And it depends on what parts of the body they want a massage, and which parts you want to use them on. Now obviously, you’ve in general got plenty of padding on the back and shoulders. It’s fantastic you got the length of the back, you got (Inaudible, 35:36) spinal and I got all the muscles running from the glutes right way up to the shoulder, and up into the neck. if they’re well padded, you can work on the back the same as you would do with knuckles, starting from the spine and working out all the way   the back, across the deltoid, and down the arm, down underneath the arms as well, to make sure you get everything. And if you have people who are swimmers and do weightlifting, the muscles on their Arms are very strong. so they can really appreciate the heat from the Stones, but the really important thing about it is, if you don’t use the stone exactly as you hold it in your hand the whole time, the skill is that you run it up the body and then you flick the , Funnily enough, , and then roll it back down using the other side. And then the first thing you learn in training is how to flick stone without slipping onto the floor all breaking your client scapulas. And that’s a skill and that you first trust

KRZYS:                                            That’s definitely a skill

JENNY:                                             It takes a while to get it. However, once got then you are . . . in fact the reason you flip it is, because the minute you put the stone on the body, the body is receiving the stone and the heat which means it’s drawing the heat from the stone. So you flip it because the other side hasn’t had heat taking from it. So you flip it up when you roll it up, or back if you roll it down, you flip it you roll it up, you flip it and so on and you go up and down. you can use it, in the same way, all the way around about the glute, and about the top of the (Inaudible, 37:05) you can work it in circular fashion around all of those muscles the fracture, anywhere people are going to have aches and pains, where you might be doing needing a rolling, you can work the stone in a circular fashion. You can do it in any shape you want, in any design that you want. What’s important is if somebody has very clear bony landmarks then you will be more careful about not burning them, as you roll up, but you can also use the stone to massage around the bony landmark. So you can go around the scapula, you can go to the shoulder joint. you can work it on very clear well-defined muscles if you’ve got a lot of padding, or a lot of tightness across the top of the shoulders, you can circularly use the stone, smallest stone on those padded areas, on the-the back of the Scapular. You can do all sorts of different things. The most important thing about Training is experimenting how you use the stone, and how effective it is? You’ve already got the skills; all you are doing is using the stone as an extension of your arm. And so it’s how you use that stone to get the maximum from it. what’s actually really helpful is that firstly, because you’re holding the stone in your hands and not using fingers knuckles, you are preserving your hand, which is very helpful if you’re (Inaudible, 38:24) person so that you don’t create sort of arthritic tendencies, but you also get more power because you’re running your body weight through your hand into the stone and into the client. So if you’re not very good at getting power into a client and they want a deep massage use the stone and it does it for you.

KRZYS:                                            That’s really shared with us, really incredible tips for us.

JENNY:                                             It’s really helpful. You’d be surprised; I’m going to let the client use our Channel swimming. She loves the hot stone on her upper body because she’s got (Inaudible, 39:00) a tank. She’s got more of a physique of a big-boned man, but the boy on the boy was that hot stone worked on her. There is something else in that . . . there are a lot of contraindications in massage, one of which is working on painful arthritic joints. However, without using pressure, you can work hot stone; the heat will go into the joint without the pressure and I have a client who’s a big-bodied person who has rheumatoid arthritis and get to the lot in the shoulders, across the scapular, and in the rotator cuff. I would never use this on an arthritic elderly person, but she’s in her forty’s and just gently using that stone around the arthritic joints, gives her so much pain relief you would be surprised. And I just tried it one day and just said how this feel does? And you have to test the water sometimes you can hide behind the list of contraindications. You got to see why it’s contraindicated? Or whether or not there are ways that you can actually work with it, and I was astonished at how effective it was. and I actually have a number of elderly clients I don’t use a hot stove, but I use those heat in a click pads where you click a little metal piece inside a soft pad and it heats up. I used those to massage (Inaudible, 40:30) the middle, I use them flat because they are such a good edges, but I work those around us pretty joints in the very elderly. There’s no pressure at all, but the heat is just wonderful, and it works very well for them, and they get more mobility out of those joints because of the heat. And there are many conditions that the heat is incredibly valuable for, really important to use the heat so that if someone comes along with something really hot and if you go to India and Sri Lanka, the (Inaudible, 41:00) message is about friction which generates heat. This is giving you the heat without friction because not everybody likes the friction, and if you’re a healer like I or some people would use holds as part of their massage, it’s not that different from me from a hold, but you’re not only holding but you giving it a greater heat and you can do it with a pad or you can do the stone. What will eventually, happen is your stone will start to run out of the heat, and you have to make a decision what it’s got Could enough that you replace it with another one. what I do when I’m working with a client is, I would usually not always usually start from the lower back and work away up, by the time I’m working the shoulders the deltoids, the neck, or working the arms, I’ve probably got two or three relatively cool stones at each point I will then place them on the spine and then bring the towel up to their back so they’ve got residual heat from the stones going into the back to maintain the what this already been done Whilst I’m working on new areas, and I will leave them on the back of the neck as well as they don’t sleep off . Once I’ve done the upper body when I’m doing the lower body. So I’ll work on the lower body also with stones having some of the stones on the upper body. so again you need to make sure that you put enough stones and that you’ve got the right size stone to the parts of the body that you’re going to do; that’s an assumption the client wants top and bottom done. So those are the key factors. The other thing to be aware is the bony landmark now with the spine, the scapular, and all the different parts you’re likely to meet. You’re not going to find bones in the leg that’s what big stone on the hamstrings are great. You know how tough it can be knuckling a hamstring; heat stones will do a really great job. But you need to also be aware of your client skin, the prostitute skin, the thinness of the skin

KRZYS:                                            On the back of the legs is quite sensitive

JENNY:                                             Lower legs; never use a stone on the front of the legs. But it depends on the client’s pain threshold and it depends on their age. If they’ve got translucent skin, be very wary about using the hot stone because it’s a lot stronger and it can drag. And I do remember one occasion which was how you would adapt. . . A lady came for a session, and her husband had booked her a hot stone session as a gift voucher for her birthday and she turned up, and she was in her seventy’s she has done a lot of healing work and received a lot of healing works. She was looking forward to it; so we did a consultation, and I laid her on the table. I got myself full ready for the (Inaudible, 43:36) and I did the first (Inaudible, 43:38) stroke quite gently from her shoulders down her back, and she said that’s too strong.

KRZYS:                                             Yeah.

JENNY:                                              So I recalibrated everything I took steps out of the hot water and put them in the cold water, so that they were lukewarm I did very gentle warm up, gentle finger kneading work no depth, and then I gently used the stones in a circular motion without any depth to it whatsoever, rolled it gently up and down her back and her legs, using the flipping motion. She loved it, and she was talking about adapting that’s exactly what you have to do. Well, we all know some clients come along and want you to help them, and another people come along and then the moment you put your hand them they said it too strong, you’re going to get the same thing with hot stone clients. None of them are under the illusion you just got to put it on their back. I also make sure if there are new clients and I have a hot stone client, I say have you had it before? Do you know what this involves? I don’t want you to turn up and think you can lie that with folks totally back on the job or on a soundtrack of waves. So it’s important in the same way as you would do with a new client. Please instruct them in what is going to happen, you have to do the same thing with the hot stones

KRZYS:                                             Amazing, so you already mentioned outright. What are the other benefits? What are conditions? What is good for?

JENNY:                                              Well, it’s good for most conditions, because it is even more effective by engaging the PMS. It will help people with anxiety; it’s a very good at helping relieve muscle pain. You can use hot stones over scar tissue, you can use hot stones over recent pain obviously, not immediate pain. So you wait for the contraindication time to roll out, but it actually is very good for the tight hard muscle to allow them to relax. It gives them a chance just flop and you can use breathing techniques at the same time… It’s good for arthritis as I’ve said. It’s good for anxiety. I would never use a hot stone on the head, or a face I don’t feel that’s appropriate. But it’s incredibly good for things like whiplash, where you have incredibly tight trapezius and neck muscles. Where your mobility is very limited; there’s (Inaudible, 46:05) you can do, if somebody is experiencing extremely strong whiplash sort of hold do very gentle compression, a hot stone or whiplash will take away the discomfort quicker than anything else, but it won’t put the muscles under due rest. If you find the muscles are so tight, you can’t even roll the head to one side to work the neck, which happens. . . I actually if I could apply whiplash or leave them absolutely, on the face-up and face down and then move it to the top until they show me that they’ve actually got some mobility. You put hot stones gently rolling them up the neck little stones just… you can imagine how it feels if you can’t move your torso. It’s very good for bizarrely using very tight not comfortable intercostals, as long as they don’t have very prominent ribs, as long as they don’t have broken ribs. It’s the same thing; it’s getting at muscles you can’t always get out, that will actually transmit the heat through the body into the muscles. So, of course, it’s going to be received by the superior muscles, but the in everyone’s line below the ones that are adjacent to the skeleton are great. Around joint, so you’re connecting to where the tendon is joining the bone that’s another place where a lot of pain comes. You can relieve by using the heat.

KRZYS:                                            Abdominal Tummy massage?

JENNY:                                              I’ve not used hot stones on a tummy massage. I’d like other people’s opinion about that. I’m very (Inaudible, 47:42) done abdominal massage, if it’s not asked. I would do abdominal massage on a late pregnancy if they want a very gentle, I don’t do massage I do stroking. And I do abdominal on people with IBS, other problems crone disease when they’re not in a state of distress or discomfort. I do a lot of abdominal massages to help people with constipation. I would imagine what you’re doing with your hands is enough. I would be curious I’ve never thought about using stones on the abdomen, for another reason the abdomen is usually very tender skin. It not likes a back or a lab

KRZYS:                                            Yes, Yes.

JENNY:                                              And when you’re usually doing abdominal massage, you’ve often got quite a lot of super fit flat that you’re working through. So it’s not like working on a tight shoulder where you could hide effectively over the skin. Little kits will often find that you are moving thing Fashion fact the same time simply because of the volume that is there. How don’t that hot stones know why? My instinct is to say no but I’d be do you want of other people use it all the time.

KRZYS:                                            That’s why I’m just really curious you know just working with a digestive track just around super emotions, just gentle you know but obviously, not as hot I don’t know how hot they can be? Although that just came to my mind. Am very big believer in Tommy massages and I do a lot so yeah.

JENNY:                                              It’s interesting you should say that actually Krzys, because when a lot of people get a tummy upset they will often get a hot water bottle and put hot bottle on their stomach

KRZYS:                                            Exactly.

JENNY:                                             So actually what you are saying has got a lot of Validity and then when I get an occasional tummy upset, I use the click Pad. And I rob them on my stomach, and that doe’s help calm. I have to say that’s a difference though, because Stone is strong and hard

KRZYS:                                            Yes.

JENNY:                                              And potentially invasive puts those others are not. But if you are using a very gentle stone and I don’t give a blade, I’ve got a couple of hot stone parts of one coming next week Funnily enough I I’ll ask her and see whether she will be interested in me doing or whether she’ll say no. but when you ask clients when you’re doing a consultation, is there any part of the body that you don’t want to touch?

KRZYS:                                            Yes

JENNY:                                              And they would Say number two is the head, number three is feet, and number one is abdomen. Most people say they don’t want the abdomen touched. I don’t have to do abdomen unless it asked for specifically.

KRZYS:                                            Or you see I’m really… Like the clients I treated in the past, obviously you know they usually said yeah, they feel you know the obviously growing area but then… When I ask about tummy massage, I never have maybe twice I don’t know, but just because let’s say they were in their period or some think there was nothing

JENNY:                                              Yeah

KRZYS:                                             But most every time you know especially, when it comes to the relaxation session there was always yeah.


JENNY:                                              How interesting? I find because I’m a healer, that I do a lot of work that triggers the justice system. So a lot of time is squiggles, and there are two three parts of the body as soon as I get there for Present particular way. I use to see almost all clients go to sleep and secondly the time he starts going. So in a way I’m kind of doing it intravenously, but it is an interesting thought and I would consider that.

KRZYS:                                            Yes so that if you get any experiences yell! On stone and tummy massages Yeah let us know. So let’s talk about the stone itself like you already mentioned what sort of products they are? And can you just you know my question. .because everyone probably going to you know would always worry and you already, you know we kind of explained but how hot they are? How hot can they be? What you know what?

JENNY:                                             They can they can be very hot. They can burn you. It depends on how lowly (Inaudible, 51:52) they don’t really got so much that they can absorb. So I make sure that they’re very hot. I’ll leave them in for an hour, or an hour and a half. if they are a new client, I will put it on an hour before a client comes, and then I’ll be finishing he wants to do the consultation, but I will my template is my hand. If I can hold them in my hands that it’s OK to go on the client. And then the first time that I use it I would cool it a little bit, cover them and only need a vast amount of oil. You will need three times, as much oil in a hot stone massage.

KRZYS:                                            But don’t put the oil into crock pot just

JENNY:                                             No. You have them only in water to take them output them in the Cold Water until you got to the temperature you want if you need to, then you cover them with one.

KRZYS:                                             So when you took that one stone and yet it is too hot what do you do?

JENNY:                                              I put it back into the cold water and cool it down.

KRZYS:                                            So you have a hot pot but next to it you have a pot with cold water?

JENNY:                                             Indeed that’s why I said I always have a metal item to get the stones out and a pot of cold water next to it. So I can cool down if I need to. And the first moment is always the most challenging because that’s when you’re assessing what client can cope with and you’ve already asked you know how hot you wanted it? And some people will say very hot, so that nobody really understands what hot, very hot not so hot is until it touches them, everybody’s descriptions are different. So I will work them inaudible, 53:30) until they tell me that what I’m doing is strong enough. So that I can understand the power that they require, that will probably tell me the heat they can tackle. And then the first thing I do after covering the oil, I’ll do a very quick skim up back, never on the spine, never on the shoulder, in the middle of the backup part of the shoulder and say how was that? And take it off and they will say oh! That was fine or oh! That was a little bit too hot and I will put it back in the water so that I have the facility to get it to the right heat for the client. If it goes any hot and not open them so it’s at its max heat and then I’ll start with it initially, I will do the first Sections up and down the back quite quickly. So they get used to heat going up and down the back and that’s until it’s cooled down enough for them to relax and you can always tell when they’re relaxed. and then I can start working the stone deeper into the back, as it then cools you can do more work with the position particularly the kneading and the deeper compression with it, and you keep on doing that until it is cool And then you replace it, because you don’t stop using it when it’s cold; you stop using when its total cold. And then you can replace it with another hot stone, and I keep about ten on the go the whole time with various sizes, but the opening two moves are the challenge, because those are the occasions where it’s most important which is assessing the tolerance of the client to the heat and it’s exactly the same as when you’re working with a client during (inaudible 55:06) exercise how much can they tolerate. Everybody’s different so that’s your boundary, that’s your starting point.

KRZYS:                                           OK so where can we get them? Can they have to be special stones? What can you recommend and if you think what’s yours?

JENNY:                                             I would say if you go online Google hot stones, they can be bought from all sorts of different paces. Now I trained with drawer I don’t know where he gets his from, but he will sell you a sets of stones

KRZYS:                                           After the course?

JENNY:                                              Yeah. They are . . . you do the course and buy the Stones; you don’t have to have the stones. But that’s obviously for financial reasons. But he has the right stones he does give you a very large number of stones and I would argue with that number of stones is necessary but is dependent upon who you are as a therapist and what you use them for. You can buy them from pretty much any therapist outlet. You can go online or look on Amazon and the ones that you tend to buy is a little kits that you can buy, have a few number of stones they’re all not particularly big. So you need to find the ones that actually provide you with biggest stones, because I use three biggest stones and the rest are about the size of my palm and two or three about half size of my palm plus an extra one that I use in acupressure. So what you’re looking for is a set of stones for the greater variety, there are masses out there at various prices. Cheapest are thirty while the biggest is two hundred fifty. See you have to make your mind up how much you want to spend. And you can end up using buy a Mini pack for so secret until you get confident with it, and then you can buy more and augmenting it. There’s no requirement I bought mine from Draw because I don’t see any reason why not the time I have enough money to spend on doing it. But like I said I only use half of the stones. What I need to do is get them out look at me again and reappraise possibly, and see that there are stones that are more for healing purposes and stone are for massage purposes and it depends upon who you are as a therapist. How you want to use them?

KRZYS:                                           So what do I avoid to do? Do they break? Do they have like the end of use?

JENNY:                                             Well, let’s assume that at some point (inaudible, 57:31) I had one of mine a bit chipped off

KRZYS:                                            Yes

JENNY:                                             But I’ve dropped it down. It was just an edge to the top. But I’ve had these for eight-nine years and they’re still going strong without any problem at all.

KRZYS:                                              That’s just what I wanted to ask. Is there something like you have to you known every three months or it’s something for?


JENNY:                                             No. No, any investment. So once bought they something you keep then you will use all the time. I have mine in a bow in the therapy room, because they look beautiful and people say what are those? And I say they’re hot stones which is another subtle way of marketing, isn’t it?

KRZYS:                                              Yes. That’s a good idea. So can you tell us? Where would be the best place to learn? Can you know advice?

JENNY:                                             Indeed it depends on where you on are; most cities will have several places where to train hot Stone. Draw body ology is still assisting with that course. Draw body ology I do it two days course my next one’s going to be in March next year. I don’t have stones for people to sell they can buy their own. And they don’t have to come with stones because; I will provide enough during the training for people to practice with. I’ve looked and seen you can do high-tech qualifications at level three.

KRZYS:                                            I just want to ask because exactly there are courses and a course

JENNY:                                             Yes there are courses and a course

KRZYS:                                           So what’s the best to look up for?

JENNY:                                             Go to body ology all hands on. I would say because the quality of the massage training is at number four anyway, the teachers are trained to level four, five and six, and they know what they’re doing. I know that a colleague of mine who I trained with when we did our NTI training he went and did a Hi-Tech Level three course. He said it was dreadful, he said the woman who is less than him, and she used very poor language and descriptors. Didn’t they have good stones they didn’t really learn how to do it? And he felt that he was half the time teaching her. Now you know he had quite a strong ego there but he was very disappointed. There are lots of courses out there on level two, level three. One day courses you need longer, you need a day to understand what’s going on in a day to start practicing. That’s day one and then the second day is actually using those skills to really work out how you work? And your work in twos and threes and experimenting on each other; so you really do need the two days course. As far as I’m aware the two days course certainly the one we do and the other body ology dance. You get a certification, but there is no diploma attached to it and also accredited courses N.T.I. dozens of credit hot stone courses. the F.H. team dance, so if you want to do an accredited course you could get it accredited through the FAT there will probably be an exam with it, or some kind of assessment but the courses that we do our. Experiential without a qualification that I may find that are wrong it may be the term body ology others it does to the quality course now but it didn’t the course that I did wasn’t accredited It was a CPD course a two day training and it was as much as I needed to be able to practice it. The other thing in terms of insurance is that you can register separate skills but you have to have a city action for separate skills if you want to, otherwise you are covered to do what you do within the boundaries and scope of your mom age so that’s assuming, you don’t have a hot stone diploma you can get hot as long as you do something that you don’t know how to do. And that really is up to you. Now, this may change in years to come but at the moment that’s the way it is. So some people are adding in pregnancy, sports, or whatever to their portfolio on their balance, but they will pay extra for every single name on it otherwise, if they short their balance, their expectation is that you perform according to your skill base, and you don’t go beyond that. So you know if have never massage a pregnant person and someone comes along, and you don’t know pregnancy training one would advise not to. And there are many methods of pregnancy training running from one or two day courses in outstanding recordologies in the process to a whole year where you’re working to the level. So you know everything is horses for courses, but essentially using the hot stones; they are an extension of your hands, they can be used for exactly the same conditions that you are working with your hands. They are more helpful for all that is possibly less to some but, if it is a skill worth having, if people want it is an add-on.


KRZYS:                                           And definitely, the next thing would be just, if you are interested in finding out a bit more about this and you know you thinking to train or try something new well, go out to just try you have a session and see how it feels. Talk to the therapist. Just ask lots of questions.


JENNY:                                             Absolutely, I mean somewhere Scotland (Inaudible, 1:02:36) does Hot Stones and hot stone training. if you’re in MTI and you want to learn more look on the MTI website, look at the schools see which ones doing and teach hot stones to go and try it out. If there isn’t anybody in your area doing MTI, Google it. Have a look and who you like local and go and try it out. if you like it and you think it’s something worth doing then run a course. If it’s only a two-day course, and it’s not in your city you can spend two days can just do it once and stay over

KRZYS:                                           Yeah yeah yeah, exactly,

JENNY:                                              Its close (Inaudible, 1:03:06) even to get the training.

KRZYS:                                            Yeah. Definitely,   you know I’m I really… I was always curious about it definitely, is not something good I definitely, would train in it. But next thing I’m going to try it will be hot stone massage definitely. So thank you for explaining and giving us a bit more knowledge and ideas what it is and how it can be used. You know the next question is the big question which I always enjoy. If you woke tomorrow morning and you still possess all the experience and knowledge currently have, but your business completely disappear forcing you to start from scratch what you would do?


JENNY:                                              Well, if you have all the knowledge and experience that great, you need to make sure you go get all the equipment because you can’t operate without it. And I would say the first thing would be to do is… it depends if you’re starting from scratch I mean it’s a matter of money create something like a one-page website, or create a page on social media. Social media cause nothing; set yourself up stop being out there talking start connecting with other massage therapists. Look at the competition in your area, you can advertise free therapy websites. so that’s the place to go so that you get your data out there as soon as possible. if you’re working from a home environment residentially get yourself on Google Maps if you’re allowed to. There are lots of ways of actually getting your information out there without costing you a penny eventually, a website will be important. If you’ve got enough money for a single page just to say here I do that if not wait until you’ve got some cash in your income and then create a website. But you need to have an internet profile. So you need to make sure you got some of the practice you need to make sure you got all the kit to enable you to practice and get out there on social media.

KRZYS:                                            Thank you very much for his advice. So the next part is just because we bringing our guests here just not only for the knowledge, not only for the experience which they share amazing but also we would love and love from our guests. so the next part is freestyle time so we can only give you moments to promote whatever you want.

JENNY:                                             Okay. Well, I am one of the directors of Hands-on Training. We are the third accredited school in London. We are now currently two-thirds on the way through our third Holistic Diploma Course. The next to diploma course in twenty eighteen (2018) commences in February, probably everyone listening to this is already trained, but if you know people who want to train, tell them to say hi to us. We do taste Today’s an intro to massage days, we got two coming up. We’ve got 4th of November and next year the 19th of January. Ready for the diploma course people actually want to do it. They do need to do a taste today so we can assess them as much as they can assess us we are in the process. We are in the process of . . . We have developed but is now on new Sports Diploma which is diploma for sports performance as in athletes, and performers that will commence in January it is currently going through the second round of accreditation. So we are confident that come October we will have had the big tick, It will be taught by all supported by me. It will be assessed by Tim Bartlett from BCNB. So we’ve got very high profile people involved in this course, it will be running from January to August next Year. I’m already going to take eight people, so if you’re interested to get in there because there are three already over it waiting for accreditation. This year 2017, We’ve done some CPD workshops for London and Home Counties region, we’ve got one more to go which is actually going to be in January, which is all sports taping. so that’s is letting you know about that, that it’s on the 13th of January for sports taping in the morning, we do also CPD workshops too. I do massage in hospitals and hospices, because I used to work at Royal Free and in Hampstead, and I do a morning session, teaching people how to get the massage in hospitals and hospices. It’s not but it is gentler by a long way to Mystic detection, there’s no such thing as deep tissue and we look at how you massage people in bed, wheelchairs, people with dementia, and people with life-threatening terminal diseases and so on and so forth. I also do energy and energetic intuition workshop and I’m doing that the afternoon on the 8th of October. So am doing massage watch for hospital in the morning and energy in the afternoon, Am doing a special date if you want to do both and the last Thing we’re doing this year is where running an emergency first aid obviously, for all of our diploma students, if anyone need to refresh that is all day on Saturday the 4thof November. The final thing to say is that I have been in appointed and I am now working on developing an energy intuition foundation course, which will take place next year in 2018. I am already working on the accreditation documents with one of the major healing organization. And on the assumption that will work fine, we would be starting in April and finishing before Christmas. It’s a foundation Year and there will be a second year where you can actually develop your healing technique before you become accredited. So that’s what we’re doing holistic, sports energy will lot of CPD.

KRZYS:                                             That’s amazing, thank you for sharing. That’s really good news well done and congratulations. So the next.

JENNY:                                             Things happen is a down the street meet somebody says I’ve been meaning to talk to you about setting up an energetic intuition course and so funny that people keep asking me.

KRZYS:                                            Amazing, so congratulation the next year definitely would be busy. And if you have any news about it just let us know and we’re going to try to help you to spread the word.

JENNY:                                             Will indeed. As soon as we get our sports accreditation it is all over everywhere, and the same thing applied to the energy course.

KRZYS:                                           Amazing, so next part is tag a guest games the last time you tagged Errol Abramson, and yet finally we

JENNY:                                             You got him?

KRZYS:                                           No. I’m not having him, just yet but I got into touch we just extend exchanging some e-mails and hopefully we’re going to get to him very, very soon. Do you have someone in mind this time?

JENNY:                                             There are a number of people I ‘m not going to bother to suggest (change all?) some because you know you’ve already had that and I’m not going to suggest Jane because you’re already been here. I don’t know have you done a session with Sharon Bull.

KRZYS:                                            No. I Haven’t

JENNY:                                             I would want you to talk to Sharon. Sharon works I think in Bournemouth. I attended A seated massage training CPD direct with her or about eight years ago. She was wonderful. she’s so physically and so involved but she did a very, very, good Workshop at last conference on mindfulness, and this is something we talked about how important mindfulness is in terms of the pressures of everyday life. I would go for Sharon I think she is great. And I didn’t say anything to her about this, she came into my mind earlier on today when I was thinking about it. She’s very talented and she has a very special person and I think that she will be a valuable addition to your portfolio or podcasts.

KRZYS:                                            Thank you very much. So Sharon, First of all there’s a surprise from Jenny. You’ve been tagged, so we would get in touch with you. Thank you very much for sharing. so thank you for joining me here you give us lots of really good advice. So let’s finish this one thing from the lasts advice for our listeners and let me say goodbye so what would be your advice?

JENNY:                                             My final advice?

KRZYS:                                            Final advice

JENNY:                                             Okay, Bigger picture or just a little hot stones? Bigger picture

KRZYS:                                            Bigger picture

JENNY:                                             Okay, I would say that once you qualified, you have started off a fabulous journey. My advice would be chosen carefully how you move forward because you have to do CPD doesn’t mean to say you grab the nearest CPD course for the sake of doing it. Think about what it is you want to do? Think about what it is you may want to specialize in if you want to specialize think about which your Ideal client base is? And where you’re going to find your client base? And there is a consequent what services you are going to offer your client base? And then tailor your CPD to that so that everything you do is actually worth spending the money. When I started my first CPD was hot stones, my second CPD which I did a two-day course with an organization whose name I have completely, conveniently forgotten but it was a two-day pregnancy course where you didn’t is much too practical but you sat down and talked to, there were a lot of people there from every conceivable complimentary, therapy, Work, acupuncture, car practiced, osteopathy, massage therapy, aromatherapy etc etc . And we looked at exactly what pregnancy is from a physiologic point of view from day one to birth. Introducing stuff that most of us never known about and half of the people who are been pregnant didn’t know about. so you understood exactly what was going on physiologically so that you could then choose what additional learning you needed to enable you to practice your particular complementary therapy with clients who were pregnant. The companies called expect to see how they could have a huge reputation they do all sorts of training from practical to viable to whatever, and that was fantastic because I then added pregnancy massage to my portfolio. but I understood what I was dealing with before I actually got into it. And I was very careful that with the only two CPD I did in my first year and they were an absolutely worth every penny. And I use the skill and technique I learned till now.

KRZYS:                                             Exactly as something which you definitely do you knows is an investment.

JENNY:                                             It is an investment, so it working right because it costs a lot of money that you’re not going to use.

KRZYS:                                            How can we connect with you online can you just remind us?

JENNY:                                            You can connect me online I have two websites where you can contact me that do have a contact page. The first one is obviously all massage training school which is hands-on training, and the website is and the other one is through my private website, for my one on one therapy. Work and my company is one of twelve and its So the two are very simple ways of getting in touch or you can Google me on it will come up. Also, you can find me on the MTI website. If you go to MTI website and you Google me either as a Practitioner or as a Tutor, all that data will come up.

KRZYS:                                             Jenny very big thank you. As always were going to put all the information on our episode show notes for everyone if you want to get some more interested in finding out bit more about your courses and training see to find there. Jenny, it’s a pleasure to have you on the show again that’s probably and hopefully, we’re going to get you some more of that right

JENNY:                                            Thank you Krzys it’s been an absolute pleasure I really enjoyed that. And it’s what I like doing is talking about things that I enjoy the things that were valuable for me.

KRZYS:                                            Thank you very much. Bye, bye for now.

JENNY:                                             Bye.