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On this episode of The Truth about Massage Therapy Podcast, Krzys interview Cameron Reid
BHP 021 -What is Osteopathy?
Cameron studied Human Biology at the University of Surrey, graduating in 1982. In his third year, he elected to spend a year studying ergonomics at the Technical Institute, Zurich, with Professor Grandjean, a pioneer in ergonomics.
He returned to Switzerland for one more year after graduating and won a scholarship to study Osteopathy at the British School of Osteopathy (BSO), London, qualifying in 1986. Cameron stayed on at the BSO as a Clinical Tutor for 18 months while working in London in an Osteopathic Clinic.
His professional interests are manual therapy – bridging the gap between treatment, functional rehabilitation and return to work – and sports injuries. He divides his time between clinic work, and teaching accredited courses and seminars to manual therapists, physiotherapists and sports therapists.
Cameron has worked with the physiotherapy department at the Royal Ballet Convent Garden, the English Institute of Sports Bisham Abbey, Tottenham Hotspur FC, Norwich City FC and Leinster RFC. He has had articles published in Sports Injury Bulletin, Massage World, Embody, International Therapist and Natural Health Magazine.
Cameron is an Associate Lecturer at the University of East Anglia, teaching osteopathic techniques to undergraduate physiotherapists. He has been Osteopath to Norwich City FC since 1999 and is a committee member for the Sports Therapy Organisation.
Cameron runs FHT accredited courses in Advanced Soft Tissue, Articulation Techniques for Massage Therapist, How to Treat Sports Injuries, How to Treat Neck Pain and How to Treat Lower Back Pain.
“how do you know unless you look”
Tag a Guest Game:
My Practice http://www.cameronreid.com/
Therapist Training: http://www.cameronreidtraining.co.uk/
Facebook Therapist Courses https://www.facebook.com/cameronreidtherapytraining/
KRZYS: So welcome Cameron and thank you here for joining me at Busy Hive podcast.
CAMERON: That’s pleasure thank you for asking me Krzys
KRZYS: So here at Busy Hive we like to start every show with our guest favourite quote. You know our way to get everybody motivated and excited for the rest of the show and find out a bit more about you so can you tell us what’s your favourite quote and why?
CAMERON: Okay so I got several, but one of my favourite quotes is this “how do you know unless you look?”
KRZYS: Okay good one
CAMERON: Okay So that came about a long time ago, and I was studying still when I was in London, and I went to a lecture on the knee actually and the doctor who was doing the lecture came out of that quote he said two things, he said when you examining put your hands in your pockets so don’t touch the leg just look at it, and how do you know unless you look and I think and that’s always stayed with me and it’s very true.
KRZYS: Brilliant Do you still use it in your assessment?
CAMERON: I used it all the time you know I subconsciously use it
CAMERON: Because It’s very easy for someone to come in and see you and they say oh you know I’ve got people need all my big toe hurts or something like this and you go Okay we’ll get on the table let’s have you know and you might miss a lot of information so really you’ve got to look at something to understand or how it’s going to actually how it actually came about and why you can’t treat them properly so I get you look.
KRZYS: I feel different this is I think it’s great I think like what’s what I learn from my school was exactly what you saying But as well’s if it comes to limbs and stuff just compare it to the other but not only Look what’s there around but actually compared it to the older part of the
CAMERON: Absolutely. Like you know you have to find things out for yourself sometimes you’re the best, if you need to find something else out you’re probably the best person to do that so being inquisitive It’s very easy to have a judgment very quickly about some think you presume some think it may not be quite like you think so just stand back have a look and slowly make your mind up. So very easy to presume something that but it’s best to have a clean sheet and start from the beginning and have a nice order of things so.
KRZYS: Perfect thank you for sharing. So here at Busy Hive we are really focused on the beginning of our journey so can you tell us how did you get started and how did you get to the point where are you today?
CAMERON: Right should you mean how I became osteopathy or how once I was qualified what how I went about things?
KRZYS: How did you get started? How did you get you know how to just you know being an osteopathy
CAMERON: Well, Okay so that’s quite good so I was…. I lived abroad at the time and I was sixteen and my father gave me a newspaper and we lived abroad it was an English paper and he said Read this and it was an article about a football player who had an injury and no one could get it better right he went everywhere and I still wow Why’s that why couldn’t he get better you know he had the best treatment the best ever so just set that just ignited a light you know just might just you know a light bulb moment basically and I didn’t know quite what I was going to do but I knew. It was going to go in that direction from then on I knew and so it was story but I did agree to start with another degree and in the last mean physiology degree and then I did Osteopathy straight after and so that was like eight years in total and then I thought Okay we’re going to do now I’m qualified what should I do? And I thought the best thing to do is work for someone else. so I worked for someone else for two and half years in Cannes and so and I learned a lot a huge amount in two and half years and I would recommends that you’re starting out as whatever therapist you are, if you’re starting house please go work for someone, because you will get the maximum amount of experience and exposure to all sorts of problems that you might not get if you are totally in the right Okay And I remember my boss at the time who I worked for who was Brilliant he said coming to work here will give you, will make you five years ahead of everyone else. Because you have seen so many different things and experience etc And he was there to help me sometimes and he was right you know after two and half years is it was like I’ve been working for said eight years you know so that’s why I recommend.
KRZYS: Brilliant really good advice and so in your mind when you. Can you tell us one of the challenges when you started as a new therapist?
CAMERON: Yeah. Gosh, there were many and there was always a challenge behind around the corner you know. I suppose where I learned the first and where I didn’t know a lot when I qualified and then I learned very quickly was how to manage the patients. How do you manage them you know yes you can treat them Okay But you’ve also got to manage the problem and that’s skill.
KRZYS: In what sense is like, Yeah.
CAMERON: Well like for instance if someone came in let’s say they had a soft ankle maybe. You know you got to say okay I don’t want to go walking all weekend you know in the hills or something I want you to wear you know this type of shoe, I want you to I said I want to do all these things, when I left my qualified I didn’t know much about that and what do I do when they come back to me they say I’m not better. He said oh no that’s not supposed to happen. You’re supposed to be better and why don’t you sit and how did you manage that that moment and so. And so you learn that skill it’s a people skill really you know and I thought that’s where I learned the most. I learned lots of things but that was one big challenge.
KRZYS: So what advice would you say about how to manage the patient? People
CAMERON: You got to be honest if you don’t know you can say I don’t know if you do and you know if you say they say well you know I’m not better today you want to not better you’ve got to stay cool and logically go through all the possible reasons why they might not be better to ask them questions be helpful don’t be defensive you’re there to help them Okay and they don’t like that they don’t expect you to know everything they… in fact they like it, when I use to say can you give me a couple of days and I’ll come back to you and I’ll find out and they like it because they said you know what this guy or this lady is learning she wants to learn and she had to look out for me yes so I think don’t fear it
KRZYS: Yeah I think it is. It took me a while like I sometimes clients coming to me and they saying I have this and this and am like. Okay just…
KRZYS: So tell me you know. One thing I learned is that the clients, they are experts in their own body and in their own conditions.
KRZYS: And you know even just… even if you don’t have to say you know just ask them to tell them so how is that for you how’s that affecting you obviously we have a conditions and they have similar symptoms and stuff however they all you know every time they affecting everyone’s differently
CAMERON: Yes exactly right and so they come for your advice and they don’t expect you to have everything you know perfect but if you miss it you go Okay let me find out that’s nothing wrong with that so yeah that’s how I got better at it anyway.
KRZYS: Exactly comes through the experience isn’t it?
CAMERON: Yeah absolutely.
KRZYS: And the way you know when from failure sometimes here it just happened.
CAMERON: Yeah, so I think the two lessons I’ll come out of that would really listen to your patients listen to them and always educate yourself. I’ve been doing this now thirty years, in fact, it’s my thirty-first years and I still learn last night in bed I read a chapter in a book you know I’m still reading a lot and you never stop.
KRZYS: Brilliant thank you. So now we have reached them you know my favorite part because we’re entering a part when we choose a topic of the conversation which usually relates to the work of our guests. So we’re going to chat today and trying to explain to our listeners who are the master’s therapists, our students, to massaging people who want to become a massage therapist. So what’s Osteopathy and who is osteopath?
CAMERON: You know what that’s a really difficult question osteopathy is…. Osteopathy started out. Developing in America in this is the middle of the nineteenth century say eighteen seventy’s sixty’s and the main Sort of individual at that time was a man… it was two people actually there’s a chap called Andrew Tailstone and a friend of his school Daniel Palmer and Palmer went off in the chiropractic direction and still called the osteopathy that matters. But what we have to remember at that time, so medical treatment was very simple very crude not very like it is now obviously And a lot of people would see these individuals as still not for muscular problems not for back problems, but for general health problems so they would be seeing people like maybe with anemia, you know with coughs and colds and all sort of another thing. so you started out of treating general health problems it was only later that he found that by picking someone’s arm up moving the shoulder about it they would then say you know that’s helped me and he realized then that there was a muscular skill equal benefit here and that it kind of developed from there it.
KRZYS: So how did you choose to become an osteopath? You had choice of so if I don’t know physiotherapy, Chiro, osteo, physio.
CAMERON: Well I looked at all the disciplines, I looked osteopathy, physiotherapy, chiropractic and I decided on osteopathy because, in my opinion, it gave me the biggest widest training. I became a specialist in muscularity problems. And the skills the treatment skills I would learn were quite wide you know a lot of variation and so the type of problems I could treat I felt would have been bigger and so that’s why I chose and I went to the British school of osteopathy in London which at that time was into our square and there were great times here four years there and as good time.
KRZYS: So a big question because everyone asking and everyone is interesting about this and I know it’s always been well I used to…. well I’ve been trained by osteopathy I used to work with chiropractic clinic that’s the world limit to your history when I would want to part from opening my own mobile business one of my first jobs I was working at chiropractic place which exactly I learned a lot from you know treatment perspective, anatomy, physiology as well business but So how different is osteopathy from chiropractic?
CAMERON: I thought this question was coming. Okay so originally if you go back two years quite different. Chiropractic was centered on the spine only. So Disease, muscularity problems would be looked at as originating from the spine, so for instance, if you had a cardiac problem Okay a heart problem of some sort they would look at it as perhaps that cardiac problem started as a problem in the upper floor Okay. So the osteopath would say might say something very similar but they also say yes the spine is really important but the soft tissues, the muscles the fashion are also attached to the bones and to the spine and perhaps equally as important so we take equal importance to soft tissues spine and joint issues where chiropractic said the Orthodox chiropractic would just center on the spine only just about now things evolve, everything evolves, everything changes and now I’ve been on some courses at the chiropractic college in Bournemouth and They’re starting to do a little bit more soft tissue wise Okay they don’t someone else to do it they might do it themselves so. Now you get some osteopathy and some ostera treating like chiropractic and vice versa. All right so I think this is the good thing about talking to colleagues and try exchanging ideas etc. so the biggest difference would have been originally mostly spine related Okay So treatments quite short very focused on an area osteopathy would look at the spine, will look at the soft tissues and treat all of those in the treatment time.
KRZYS: Okay. Because it’s always been always chiropractic I don’t know why because chiropractic and osteopathy don’t like each other. Not that they think they are… we better you know
CAMERON: When I did my first course at the chiropractic college in Bournemouth I thought oh my God here is ninety people here and am the only osteopathy there what do I say and actually you know they were really quite interested so there was no kind of feeling of you know animosity really either tools there
KRZYS: You know and it’s even great one of osteopathy from London Jairus. He actually will now I think his book is out which deal basically look and connect both chiropractic treatment and osteopathy treatment and I think they are the same
CAMERON: Yes a lot yeah exactly I think the approach is quite different so how they might approach a problem actually In the treatment room I do think that is that is different.
I was watching some Chiropractic videos on YouTube last night and just and really it is different now if it gets you a better grade okay but I do think there’s a place for both I don’t think there are exactly the same and so yeah.
KRZYS: Okay so what would it take to become an osteopath?
CAMERON: So When I qualified as back in the eighty’s it was for your full-time course you had to have your A levels and then when you finished after the four years you were qualified to practice so you didn’t have to go work for someone else or anything. And now it’s the same so you need good A levels but also you can now do the course part time. And it goes from a four years course to five years course and the part time course is for people maybe mature students who may have had another career for some reason and then come back to osteopathy. They may not have had the required A levels but they have other qualifications and other work experience and that might qualify them to go only part time cause they also may not have the opportunity to pay for it straight away and they may need to work at the same time so again the five years course and some of the colleges do a five years part time course. So there are both options available.
KRZYS: So can you tell us, like what sort of clients you treat what sort of condition you know what sort of stuff do you treat?
CAMERON: Okay, so I work in a semi rural area I work in the middle of Norfolk which is (Inaudible, 17:40) the middle no way but it’s no lovely place and I see a whole range of people but the most I see….Some sports people and the whole range I don’t treat babies and young children but anything from sort of… Yeah twelve ten twelve upwards and my oldest patient is one hundred this September
KRZYS: Ha wow!
CAMERON: And she is amazing she is ninety-nine still and she comes here and she walks in all right. She has a fantastic attitude and she’s going to be a hundred in September has been…
KRZYS: So amazing!
CAMERON: So tens of hundred.
KRZYS: So I know there’s different Specification of a kind of. The not specific nation we’re looking for. What is it? When you treat specifically injury so I know there’s visceral and there are others. What sort of do you do so?
CAMERON: I do mostly what you call structure.
KRZYS: Structure, okay.
CAMERON: Yeah I do a little bit of this role I know it’s not my area. And I’m interested in it but I have enough to do everything else.
CAMERON: I’m not into (Inaudible, 19:03) tool again that’s just not for me and so that’s fine you know I have no problem with at all but it’s not for me so I’m mostly structural. Like I said I see all sports people so I work for North City the football club and in the championship so I work for them and it’s good because I get involved in the fitness training also and how best to get rehabilitate their spine etc. So I go just for the treatment point of view I’m also interested in the strength and conditioning etc. I think they’re all very related you can’t have one without the other.
KRZYS: So can you tell us how osteopaths can collaborate with muscle therapist and all the way round?
CAMERON: Well that easily I think it’s really important. I think in a practice having an osteopath and muscle therapist working side by sides really good because sometimes some clients need softer tissue work then you can give them Okay And so it’s great to have a massage therapist there my wife’s a muscle therapist, so she works here. And I can benefit from them I can learn from them also you know and when I teach People, Sometimes I’m learning things at the same time I said you know show me a technique that’s really good so that they can we can both learn from each other. Oh, it works together.
KRZYS: Do you have any tips for massage therapist they can learn from osteopathy?
CAMERON: Gosh. Well, one thing I find Okay and hopefully this may help some but not all massage therapists that I think we have to look at the body we mustn’t look just at what is right and what is Stiff. So tight muscles tight areas we always have them. Stiff areas they’re not always bad and so if we remove everything that is tight sometimes you then take away some of the stability. So we have to understand that person and understand what we should be the loosening of what we shouldn’t and then if something is tight it doesn’t make it bad. I used to think that when I first qualified Oh this is tight, this is stiff lets loose that sometimes it’s not as straightforward as that so brilliant say yes look at that what’s tight and stiff but don’t always think that you have to loosen everything that is tight.
KRZYS: I think we had a really good example at school similar exactly what you saying we had to push cheers and there you know when you look at them they are both bad and one of the one of the people he had no problem with this one program this one problem with this one so the question Okay so how Would you treat it? So we say this. Okay great so another person coming to you the same body push cheer but he’s fine
CAMERON: Yeah, exactly right!
KRZYS: How would you treat him? And you’re like you know.
CAMERON: Yeah so if they’re fine then why alter it? Why fix it? Okay because what are you going to fix? And are you going to make something better? So I wish to remember to tell you now. A few years ago, a soul farmer, he was seventy something mid seventy’s he still worked on his farm he came in. And I said Okay he’s good to battle Okay fine he’s a farmer Okay. He went in got changed he came out and he was complete. What was it basically he had to the half inches leg difference. Right his shoe was built up so when he walked in he looked completely normal and I said My goodness how long he had spackled before he said oh I just now just got it I said Well have you had a fall you should know. I said you’ve worked on a farm all your life and you’ve never had a bad back he said No I had polio as a child’s his leg didn’t grow as quickly, he had about ousting a good two inches difference he survived quite happily. Quite happily until he was mid seventy’s so this goes to show that just because they like that don’t mean that there’s anything to fix and you would think so wouldn’t you?
CAMERON: So leave it all right. So structure functions are very similar if the structure is sound it’s going to work probably Okay. It’s a structure is not sound it won’t work probably.
KRZYS: Yes. So very important to do exactly as you have a good initial consultation and find out and ask a lot of questions about the background, about a lifestyle. And what do you do how do you do?
CAMERON: Definitely high exactly!
KRZYS: Perfect thank you for explaining and give us a better idea and you know understanding what osteopathy is and how they work. So the next question I have for you because a lot of our listeners are you they’re just starting up or maybe they’ve been in the business for a while by these two struggling to work and build their own business. So the next question is if you will wake up tomorrow morning and you still possess all the experience and knowledge you currently have and your business completely disappeared forcing you to start from the scratch what would you do?
CAMERON: Double espresso I think or maybe two. Well that’s a good question
KRZYS: Coffee and as……
CAMERON: Well the first thing I would do is don’t panic and you know why? Because I still have my skills I still have my knowledge so. You go to find out why your business suddenly disappear it Okay but if it did
KRZYS: No you don’t know it just happened
CAMERON: If it did you know what’s. Going to skill…
KRZYS: Playing card you can start from the beginning
CAMERON: Yeah you going to start from the start again you know and you can do it and maybe and this time it won’t be as bad as the first time because you learn so much more and you some of the same mistakes you made in your early years it’s quite understandable all right and. You’ll be a star so I would do want to I would I wish I could find the premises quite easily Yeah I could find premises and just start from scratch and it wouldn’t it wouldn’t be too much I would say Okay let’s attack this problem. I’m going to set up again and not do some of the same mistakes I did in the past and I’m sure there’s a demand for my services and my expertise and we’ll be fine. For shock they’re.
KRZYS: Okay, am going to Put this a little bit more Okay We had a coffee and you finding it Okay next thing finding the premises from your experience and now and you already have how would you choose the premises? What would you look for now from the past you know your experiences, what you would choose now then you know then you had in your past?
CAMERON: I’ve worked in several different types of premises and where I am now is perfect.
But if I was going to rent a room or something you got to be on the ground floor
KRZYS: Okay so the next question would you rented it? Would you buy it? Or what would you do?
CAMERON: I would rent a store!
CAMERON: To start off I would rent but then I would like to buy if I can. I tell you where a good is a good place Okay it is on the corner of a street. Okay if you’re on the corner you have access to two sides and people can see you from two different roads and this is really good so ground floor if you can go for a corner if you’re lucky enough that the fantastic is right and you can see both sides and just I would like to have two rooms if I can. if I can’t I could manage one room until which time I built up enough that I can then move on or buy premises but my ultimate aim would be to buy
KRZYS: Okay reception or no reception?
CAMERON: I don’t think reception is hugely important at the start. I think people understand so long as you have a nice premise I think you can get away with it. when I first started I had a room on the first floor, up a windy staircase, thinning windy staircase disaster okay and my waiting room was the hallway outside of the room and you know I was there for five years and no one complained no one said anything so I thought okay I would like now I have a lovely waiting room I have treatment room. And I’m very lucky but at the start I didn’t but really you have to ask the question why are people coming to see me? Because they are hurt they hurt can I get can I help them? Yes I can and that’s the primary reason for coming to see they like a nice environment but it’s not quite State of the odds you get it they’ll know you’ll get there but don’t over worry about that too much of the stuff now.
KRZYS: That’s really good advice Thank you. So the next part is. When we have a moment to promote our guest so we will give you anything you want to share with us we will give you a little bit of free style time so here you go.
CAMERON: Okay well thank you very much. Okay so I am Cameron Reid and I practice in the middle of Norfolk and lovingly place here I also run accredited courses so they are aimed at massage therapy and health care professionals so I like to do it tomorrow for instance on filming with a personal trainer. So we are filming a special video that would actually help personal trainers in their in their work and look after patients or look after their clients are running my courses are all (F H T’s) Federation of Holistic Therapist as having accredited and they are.. and I do three that are really mostly aimed at massage therapists, sports therapists and any kind of medical care professional, Pilates Teacher, those sort of people. (Okay) so that I do those here in Norfolk and I do the around the country okay but here in Norfolk is really good because I have a proper training room and I only take six people. So we have six people and so that means three pairs of people. I see they have one hundred percent my attention for that and so. It’s small and it’s very focused and they learn a lot so and then I do a qualification of minutes of therapy which is a whole week so if you are level five therapist and you would like to take your training further and you have a lot of soft tissue expertise I can then take you from that to Muscle therapist and I do that once a year in Manchester. At active health training in Manchester and it’s now in its next year be a six year and it’s been really great so great time we have a whole week there we work really hard every day and have an exam at the end and I would enjoy it really good so. That’s basically what I do and obviously my practice here in Norfolk here.
KRZYS: So can tell us the names of the courses you do for the muscle therapy like to you do Training in?
CAMERON: Yes I do a course called osteopathic techniques for massage therapists, I do how to treat low back pain, how to treat neck pain, I do sports injuries course they’re all today’s long. So sensitive someday the qualification a military therapy is five and a half days long. And then I do some. Well, this might interest some of your therapists actually I do some training for companies where I go in and we do a lot of preventative care instruction to the workers there how to prevent back pain how to go about their life and not aggravate that bad. So we do that that’s it yeah
KRZYS: Brilliant thanks you for sharing and I definitely recommend because I bought one of the videos in truck to from Cameron Reed for osteopathic techniques that
CAMERON: Yes sorry yes I did three down for downloads now available for therapist they can download them and they’re sort of osteopathic therapist, muscles therapists there’s one of them. Taking reflexes and things and there’s a thirty-one also
KRZYS: Definitely great so I definitely will get ready
CAMERON: Thank you very much.
KRZYS: Definitely will recommend it. So the next part is our game when we target guests can you tell us who do you admire and why? And can you help us get the recommendation for the upcoming interview with me here at busyhive.co.uk/community/podcast.
CAMERON: Gosh who do I admire? I admire a lot of people you know I think you have Jane Johnson on your show back and so we get on. I know quite well but I’d like you to Christian Platts P L A T T S he’s a, what you call it a Fascial Therapist, a Soft Tissue and Fascial Therapist up in Manchester, does a lot of teaching, of qualification in that side. Active Health, Manchester now he would really love to be a good guest to have, very knowledgeable on the soft tissue side. Very much in demand for his abilities and Christian would be a really great addition to your show I think.
KRZYS: Thank you very much. So, Christian, we will be in touch very soon. And thank you for joining me here today and come around the give us a lot of great advice and inspiration. So let’s finish the show the last piece of advice for Busy Hive listeners and then we’re going to say goodbye to you. So can you tell us one last thing for our listeners to take out of this episode what would it be?
CAMERON: Gosh, I’ve got three things.
KRZYS: Go on!
CAMERON: Is that okay?
KRZYS: Why not?
CAMERON: Okay. Never stop learning!
CAMERON: Never stop learning. Always be inquisitive. Always ask questions and there is never a silly question, right! Always ask stick to your beliefs okay, and you know, don’t think you’re wrong, okay and stick to your beliefs and never give up! Okay if things are difficult for you at the moment they won’t always be and if you stick to what those beliefs you will be fine.
KRZYS: You know that’s more than free but do we take you demo they really think they are really great. So how can we connect with you online?
CAMERON: Okay, so my website is, my training websites is cameronreidtraining.co.uk. So Reid is spelled REID. You can phone me if you wish to use my mobile phone is not a problem or 078100045 and my email is firstname.lastname@example.org. And if you think you want to know I’ll help you .
KRZYS: Thank you very much, Cameron. Thank you for joining me here at Busy Hive podcast.
CAMERON: Thank you.
KRZYS: And all of the listeners are interesting learning bit more about your training courses and also osteopathy we’re going to put all the information on our show notes at busyhive.co.uk/community/podcast. It’s a pleasure to meet you and it’s a pleasure to chat with you today and have you on the show and hopefully, we’re going to chat very soon by for now.
CAMERON: Okay Krzys! Thank you.