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On this episode of The Truth about Massage Therapy Podcast, Krzys interview Jennie Parke Matheson

BHP012 –Energy and Energetic Healing


Jennie began her career in the performing arts, initially as a stage & production manager, then as an arts administrator – before moving into the corporate world to produce conferences and large scale events.

During the 1990’s she joined The Terrence Higgins Trust as a volunteer and worked in several capacities over a 6 year period, including co-managing the North London Buddy group and devising & running a series of sex education workshops for secondary school pupils.

Several years later, having received Healing for the first time, she looked further into energy work and its associated therapies and decided to train. Two years later she was accredited as a Healer. To augment her energy work she studied Chakra Psychology and Crystal Therapy and explored Feng Shui, Dowsing and Earth Healing.

Aware of the need for increased physical contact when working with her clients, she qualified in Deep Tissue Massage, then added Hot Stone, Pregnancy and IHM to her repertoire. Jennie established her business, White Wave, in 2008 and has been practising as a healer/holistic massage therapist ever since.

She is a qualified Massage in Schools Instructor, running touch workshops in Primary schools; and delivers one-on-one training in massage for use in hospitals & hospices, having worked in the Complementary Therapy Department at the Royal Free Hospital in Hampstead, giving massage on the wards.

With Earle Abrahamson, MTI’s chair, Jennie founded Hands-On Training in 2012 – and as an accredited MTI Tutor teaches the practical and business elements of the MTI Diploma Course in Holistic Massage. Hands-On also presents a diverse range of CPD workshops and in autumn 2017 will start its new Sports Diploma Course.


Favourite Quote:

“God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference”

Tag a Guest Game:

Earle Abrahamson

Links mentioned in this episode:

White Wave – Jennie Practice


Hands-On Training Massage School

Phone:                020 8444 7570
Twitter:              @HandsOnN10
Instagram:       hands_on_training_n10


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KRZYS:         So, welcome Jenny and thank you for joining me here at BusyHive Podcast.

JENNIE:         Hello there to you Krzys.

KRZYS:         So here at BusyHive we like to start every show with our Guest Favourite Quote. (Laughter) It’s (Laughter) our way to get everybody motivated and excited for the rest of the show. So, can you tell us, “what’s your favourite quote and why?”

JENNIE:         Well, it’s an interesting question because I don’t generally have a favourite quote or have lots. But one thing that comes back always and it’s the very first line of the opening verse of the Serenity Prayer because it is very wise. And it goes like this, “God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things that I can, and the wisdom to know the difference”. And I often feel that people need to be using this a lot more. I find it very sobering and it makes me stop and think and focus. Because, people don’t use a great deal of wisdom these days, they talk, they rush and they need to stop, and they need to think, and they need to know what they can and cannot do and be aware of that.

KRZYS:         And it’s very true and it comes in experience, cause you know all the main words in there are really, really put together its “accept, courage and wisdom”.

JENNIE:         Exactly! And they’re really key words and in fact, if you use that as your mantra then it will help you for the future. Because it means that you are open to other people not closed.

KRZYS:         Accept, courage and wisdom for everybody. Thank you for sharing that. So here at the Busy Hive we really focus on the beginning of our journey because we can learn a lot from, from our beginnings. So, can you tell us how did you get started and how did you get to the point where are you today?

JENNIE:         Well it is arguably a long story and it’s one that twelve years ago I wouldn’t have expected to happen. I come from a background of music, and theatre, and live performance. And most of my family are professional performers of one sort or another, some very high-profile others less. And I myself moved into that world and worked in it for a long time. Although I was always behind the scenes organising, managing, administrating and so on, which is my, my preference. However, a period of time came about twelve, thirteen years ago where my father had become very unwell and my mother was becoming unwell. And I began to question what I was doing, and simply in terms of the nature at the time I was spending doing it. And I honestly wanted to talk to somebody and I was looking to find somebody to talk to. And, I thought about counselling, and I thought about being referred through the NHS. The problem with that is that they would just allocate you, somebody. And I didn’t want someone just allocated to me. Because I’d had some counselling when I was working as a volunteer and they had allocated somebody who was really not interested. And I was recommended a local Psychotherapist by a neighbour, so I went to see her and she was not like any person working in that world I’d ever met before. She was unusual, she was funny, she was lucid, she talked, she wore outrageous jewellery, outrageous clothes and she worked in a space that was very personal. Rather than the kind of space that you’d go into which is the white box, the two chairs, a coffee table, a glass of water, and a box of tissues. Which, I really cannot stand and she helped me enormously. She helped me compartmentalise the issues I was dealing with. And to focus on the positives, and to work through the negatives, and to help understand myself. And it was a very enjoyable period of time considering the challenge. However, during the first session, she said to me, “Do you realise that I am also a healer”. And I knew what healing was but not enough about it and a couple of friends had done things to me which I had kind of felt quite warm with. And I’d been to (laughter) a Psychic Fair with my cousin who was trying to sort out whether a broken relationship was going to start again. And in the middle of it all, I kept being approached by people saying, “you’re the person in the room with the psychic connectivity”. (Okay) And I said, “I don’t think so”. However, so essentially, I did my sessions with her, and of course, at the end of it, she says, “Guess what, I run a course”. And I’d received healing from her each session just a little bit at the end. But it really did begin to change me, it changed my focus. When you’re on the tube, for those people who live in London and travel on the tube. Everybody looks down, they’re all in black nobody communicates. And I began to be looking up and connecting with people. And I began to be aware of things around me, and the way that life was until I found it very opening. And so, when she said, “I do this course”, I decided that I would do it and it was initially one year where she was exploring a combination of energy healing and also all sorts of complimentary therapies associated with it. From Feng Shui to the High Chi, to Tarot, to NLP to Systemic Therapy, all sorts of different things. Chakra, Chakra Psychology, Feng Shui. And we spent half of these sessions working on healing, which was challenging and the other half exploring all of these different things. At the end of which you’d then cherry picked what you may want to study more with. And I loved it, I absolutely blossomed with it.

KRZYS:         What did you choose?

JENNIE:         I didn’t initially, because I did quite a lot of it in the end. The second year was 50% Healing and 50% Systemic Therapy because healing work is often based around talking, so, I learnt the Systemic Therapy process. Which, is like Psychotherapy, it’s like Counselling but without the qualification. And, I thoroughly enjoyed that too, however, I was also doing healy work, healing work as a volunteer and I was working with Cancerkin, which is working with people living with breast cancer. And I would go along once a week to the Royal Free Hospital in North London. And the majority of the clients were women and they would choose somebody to give them healing which would involve a bit of talking a bit of crying and a bit of healing. And I was chosen one day by a woman who was aggressive, angry, distant and deeply, deeply lonely and unhappy. And I managed to persuade her to sit down and take her rucksack off so that I could at least, at least do some work. And the thing about Energy Work is that it is non-touch. If you study Reiki, you do touch. But if you study Energy Work, Healing, Spiritual Healing there is no touch. It’s non-invasive which is actually very important. (Okay) So, I said to this lady, “do you mind if I touch you”, and she said “yes”, curiously. And I put my hands on her shoulders as you would do at the beginning of a Seated Massage group session, and she burst into tears and she cried and yelled and sobbed and it became apparent to me that although I was doing very well in non-touch non-invasive therapy I needed to add a touch therapy. So, I contacted my Osteopath who I love and admire dearly and said, “recomme, recommend me a good course”, and he said, “I’ve got this friend, he’s called Drew Steiner go and train with him. It will be interesting it will be challenging but you will learn a lot”. And unbelievably Drew was about to start a course, in fact, it was only his second course with Bodyology and I enrolled and I found it utterly fascinating. And a year later I qualified in that Spiritual Healing, Systemic Therapy, and Deep Tissue Massage, so that was my start. And curiously, I started doing a lot more healing work but as time went on the massage work came through. However, when it comes to people making a decision, who they want to use as their Massage Therapist, my age because I’m older than many other people, my experience, my previous life working in the performing arts and my combination of deep tissue, or rather touch therapy and non-touch therapy is very attractive to certain people. So, those are the tools that I have and that’s what attracts my clients and so I do far more massage work but often with an healing element attached to it or integral to it.  And I know you’re going, to come up when we discuss that in, in greater depths later, but it actually, that’s my USP. That’s where I differ from other people and some people obviously are not remotely interested in the healing side of it and that’s fine. And I deal with a lot of people with physical issues, however, I also deal with people with emotional issues as well.

KRZYS:         Oh, thank you, for really thank you for sharing that. So, how old were you when you actually discovered this and started it. (Laughter) You mentioned twelve years ago but…

JENNIE:         You want me to tell you how old I am? I was fifty (50). (Okay) And I’m now sixty (60). I know I look forty (40), all my students tell me I look forty (40), which is very nice of…

KRZYS:         Yeah, definitely you look a lot younger.

JENNIE:         Thank you for the money girls but I started when fifty 50 and it does beg the question you can keep learning and growing and changing all the way through your life.

KRZYS:         And that would be, that’s the only I, I would like to point out. And I, I said as I mentioned you don’t look your age. And but I, that’s the point I want to point out, that actually whatever your age you can actually discover something new and start, and start learning and actually follow, follow, follow your passion.

JENNIE:         Yeah, it keep, it keeps your brain alive to be seeking. You don’t have to be desperate and seeking, but you can always explore new challenges. And I think that in a, in a world where life expectation is no longer fifty (50) but seventy (70), eighty (80) or ninety (90) you cannot live your life where when you get to fifty you’re going to retire and do nothing because you would actually go nuts. And I love the fact that I do what I do and having trained and qualified and practiced I’ve decided I then wanted to teach it. So, I went through all my teacher training, accreditation, developing and running a school. And now I’m developing successful courses and finding it incredibly rewarding.

KRZYS:         Brilliant! So, you would say that that was like a life changing step?

JENNIE:         It was. Going, going to see this one woman, just on a recommendation of a, of a neighbour changed everything. However, I must have been opened to the change because otherwise, it wouldn’t have happened.

KRZYS:         Brilliant, so thank you really, really, really for sharing that. So can you shhh.., can you tell us one of the challenges as a new therapist?

JENNIE:         Yeah, as a new therapist (Laughter) it’s when you’re training you have the support of your tutors and the paperwork. Once you qualified it’s a strange place to be. I think it’s important that the schools have a mentoring and a supervision facility and a place for newly qualified people to go and ask questions. Because suddenly you’re out there on your own and the clients don’t know that you qualified five minutes ago and they’re expecting quality therapy. And I think the call is really about self-confidence. It’s about using your training time and learning how to be a therapist properly. Not just getting through, but actually learning more. You need to be self-motivated. I would say certainly for the first few years of my training, and still now people present with conditions I know very little about. So, my responsibility is to find out about them to see what the massage recommendations are, how I can work with them and, and how I can deliver them something which is of, of value. And, and I, I, I, I have a client only the other day and I’ve been practising for nearly ten years who had a syndrome I knew all about but I’ve not actually worked with anybody with that problem. However, I did a lot of research about it. Talked to people who’d worked with it and as a consequence, he very much likes what I’m doing and finds it valuable, so, I’m always learning. So, it’s self-confidence, you need to be clear about who you are and what you’re doing and you not be shy of finding out more. If somebody has a condition you don’t know much about the, the best way to do is to ask the client because they know what it is…

KRZYS:         They are the best, in they know their body…

JENNIE:         What’s it like to live with it. And they also know what the values of the different treatments are because they would have tried it all before. And the reason they are coming to somebody new is that either it worked terribly well with the person they were dealing with has now left or moved on or they didn’t find what they were wanting and they are looking in fresh places. So, at all times, it’s an opportunity.

KRZYS:         And I, I always, exactly when I, when I have a client who don’t you know have a different condition I haven’t treated I always came with the idea they you know. I don’t treat conditions so (Yeah) regardless. Okay, we let’s say we had some sort of one conditions, condition which affects lots and lots of different people it still affects every person differently. (Exactly) There are similarities, obviously, however, it’s affecting differently so I always ask so, how, how do you feel about that? How does it affect you? And you know what, you know, if you had, if you had previous therapist what worked and what didn’t worked?

JENNIE:         Exactly, cause there’s no point doing something that didn’t and also the, the key thing is if people say they don’t like something or they don’t want something leave it alone. There are too many people saying “Oh, I know you don’t like it but try it anyway”. It’s pointless and they won’t come back. (Yes) They’re looking for something new. However, there are some people who I would refer to as a therapy junkie, and they come along and say I’ve tried twenty-five different people and it hasn’t worked for me and the likelihood is you’re going to be the twenty-sixth, but they’re not that frequent. And, and there are also people who know everything about massage and are closed to anything new so that’s an interesting challenge when they come along and tell you everything that they have done and they kind of shut down the questioning. So, you have to find a way to be curious and probing without being insulting to see if you can find more. Always, always interesting! (Laughter)

KRZYS:         And as, and as well you know, as you are expert in the room just be, be honest and if you don’t know don’t, just say it you don’t know and that’s why you having this conversation because (Exactly). You want to relate to this exact person how does it feel for them.

JENNIE:         Well the thing is they will often say, “you’re the expert”, and I say in return, “I am qualified in handling these conditions and I have methods that we can use, however, you are the expert in your own body and we have to share that knowledge to make it work. It isn’t I do to you and you receive and say yes or no. It has to be a co-relationship”. It’s really important which is the NTI approach, is that you consult, discuss and communicate with your client. You don’t say right, “lie there and I’ll make you feel good”. You actually have to communicate with them. However, if they’re, you know, three-quarters asleep because they’re liking what you’re doing, you know they like what you’re doing so you don’t have to keep asking them. (Laughter) However, you know, if you’re doing remedial work as opposed to relaxation work you’ve got to maintain the dialogue you can’t just do it. (Yes) It’s really important, you know, and they have to tell you how they’re feeling I mean, I had this man I did some work on the other day you could tell there was a lot of pain in his face and I said, “is this painful”, and he said, “yes, but its good pain please keep on going because it’s exactly what I need”. So, I respected his needs, he respected my skill and at the end of it, he was able to walk out far more mobile than he had been when he walked in.

KRZYS:         And that’s really you know the best, the best, the best reward of actually…

JENNIE:         It’s a good experience.

KRZYS:          Yeah, it’s really, really good, perfect. And I really in the, in your challenge with that as a new therapist I can really, really relate because that’s what, that’s why I create really Busy Hive because (Yeah) well the experience most of therapist didn’t get much inspiration and motivation after they qualified. (Yeah) And you know when the massage students you know hadn’t, but you know at school they teach you, you know lots of lots of different things but there’s just enough time to get things done to get you qualified. (Yeah) So you can become the expert. But it is, there’s much, much, much more and that’s why I, you know we created you know Busy Hive to get, get people in Therapist and the practitioners to better guidance on the you know, on the journey after.

JENNIE:         Well the thing is, that, that as a Therapist on the assumption you continue with your MTI membership, which I would thoroughly recommend. Is that you do have to do a minimum of eighteen hours CPD every year, apart from in your first year after qualifying. I think that doing CPD is vitally important, but I would say to people is think very carefully about what you do. Just don’t do it anything as a knee jerk reaction to get the hours in. Stop and think about where the value is. Because once you’ve qualified as you start to generate business you are always seeking who are your clients, where are they coming from what is the therapy that you’re offering, do I like what I’m doing, do I want to be doing something else? Do I want to specialize? I would say don’t specialize in anything for at least two years until you get enough practice under your belt to really understand what it is you’re doing. And don’t feel that I’m doing just massage. I went through a phase where I felt that I needed to do, all sorts of different things including fascial releases and God knows what else. And somebody said to me there’s nothing like a really good deep tissue massage, and I remembered that I’ve got the core skill. (But…) And to remember that and to use it. And then be deciding where you want to go with it, you know? Do you, do you want to specialise in sports which loads of people do? Do you want to specialise in pregnancy and baby massage? Do you want to do myofascial release? Do you want to go and train with Lois Duncan, you know what is it that you want to do? Think about it and chose very carefully what your CPD is so that you actually benefit. The one good thing about MTI is its policy regarding regional workshops. Where the opportunity allowing funding is there to enable workshops to take place at a very reduced figure. Usually positioned as a taste today so that you can’t then say no, I’m qualified in it because you’re not. To find out if that’s for you to learn a little bit more. I have over the years; I was part of the London and Home Counties Group when Anna Devowska, who everybody knows as the main registrar, was the team leader. When Anna moved into an administrative role with MTI, I took it over and ended up producing the London Conference back in 2012 I think it was, maybe later. And, then I left because now I’m a teacher although we were asked by London, that’s my, our massage school, Hands-On Training to do some workshops this year for London and Home Counties because they’d let, it had slipped a bit. So, we’re doing four workshops, we’ve done three. That gives people the opportunity to come along, to come along and network with each other. To explore different things, learn different techniques decide if it’s for them as part of a decision about where to take their future. And it could be something that they put on the back burner for years or it could be something that they choose to do immediately.

KRZYS:         That’s, that’s, (And so) that’s really great because, after college, you’re just left alone and you have really wide, wide (Absolutely!) You know I was, I was amazed because I want to do this, I find out about this, I find out about this, I want to do this, I want to do this, I want to do this, and it was like exploring. And I remember my, my tutor told me, just enjoy it for now. (Exactly!) Just, just explore and you know what you know at the moment. And then you can find out and actually, find out what’s your passion and what you’re interested in and then (Exactly) you simply specialise…

JENNIE:         Yeah, it’s important because you can rush into things and it’s really vital not to, sit back learn. Because the more that you work with clients the more that you learn. And you may think that it’s something you wanted to do desperately, you don’t. I did a couple of courses and I learnt quite a lot of interesting techniques most of which I don’t use. I’ve, I’ve taken a couple of things and also when I’ve worked with colleagues, people have done different things. I’ve worked on sports events marathons triathlons I’ve seen people do different things and I’ve stolen it because it looks fantastic. Because nobody owns anything, and I have my own work that I do which works with my clients. But like everybody else I have a series of skills and techniques which I use as and when I need them. (But…) I don’t actually use them all the time but I’ve got a huge toolbox to use when I need them.

KRZYS:         That’s the thing you have a toolbox, but in the, in the end, it always comes to back to basics. (It does) Always you know you I don’t, you know I, I train in Spinal Manipulation, Dry Needling, I’ve, I’ve done Sports Remedial so I, I know the advanced techniques which they’re great to address, some of them, some of the issues but always every time is back to basics, basic Swedish, basic Kneading, basic Stroke, basic Petrissage, Glide and so on and so on. It’s always the best work comes from back to basics.

JENNIE:         Absolutely! One thing I would add into that is, and certainly because now that I teach students, is protection, safeguarding. One of the fantastic capabilities is using forearms. That, I, for me, I find that really helpful. Because it saves your hands, it saves your knuckles and it also offers a really good compression technique to people that they love. And I know that Darian Pritchett teaches what he calls hands free. But it’s using the forearms not necessarily your elbows but your forearms, and I find that, that my clients love it. So, that, that’s just a tip.

KRZYS:         (Laughter) And thank you for, for all the tips so far. So, the, the next part, we, is the part, which is my favourite part of the show when we reach the topic of the conversation which many of you relate to the work of our guest. (Yeah!) So, we’re going to start, and going to chat, what’s Energy, and what’s Energy Healing? As a, you know, major of, of a, I still don’t quite don’t, don’t understand and with myself included so what’s Energy Healing and how does it work?

JENNIE:         Okay, this is, this is something that some people find very difficult to understand. I remember being sat down by a Quantum Physicist and asked all sorts of questions I couldn’t answer. And some of my colleagues would say actually I don’t know how it works or I don’t care how it works, it just does. But I think from an energetic view point as Massage Therapists, the core is actually to do with your cellular structure. If we go back to lesson one in our APMP training where you look at the cell, what is the key part of the cell? The battery. The battery is what actually generates activity in the cell and in the body. If you think about the human body not only are you dealing with the cells but you’re looking at, looking at the nervous system. You’re looking at the alter-nemic nervous system you’re looking at all parts of the body that do and look after you without you having any control over it. Essentially, that’s all triggered by energy. If you take yourself out of your body, and you actually look at you sitting, on the Earth in the universe, the Earth the planet that we are sitting on is hurtling through space. It’s spinning through space at an alarming rate and hurling itself around the sun. And yet we are all sitting here calm and quiet and held here by gravity. The amount of energy that is in us, in the atmosphere and beyond the atmosphere is extraordinary. What energy people work with is trying to harness elements of that energy for the body to receive to use for healing. (Okay) Now, I, I can’t go into a descriptor of that enough because I’m not a Quantum Physicist. However, if you use the energy that you have in your body and you visualise giving it to somebody else the recipient will receive. Difficult to describe, however, there are, one of the ways people offer to channel is in you are a conduit, you the healer are a conduit between the energy source and the recipient which is the person which that you’re working with. If you put your two hands together, you can when they get close enough, feel warmth. So take your hands apart, and feel as if you’re holding like a tennis ball or a football and you move your hands in and out until you find almost an energy field giving you some resistance. Now, some people can find that very easily some people not. Other people working in energetic fields might refer to it as your aura or your energy field, but if you are able to put your hands around a human being you will find a point where the heat coming from their body becomes something tangible. Okay, does that make sense?

KRZYS:         Yeah, that makes sense. So, some of the people, some of the people who called they suggest the heat.

JENNIE:         Well, it is the heat and its heat generated by (Energy) your blood by everything. However, if you think about the contact of massage where skin meet skin it automatically generates a healing trigger and in some instances obviously oxytocin and that feeling of wellbeing. You can do the same thing but without actually physically touching. What you are using is your physical structure and your mental structure to channel the energy from above in the universe through you and out through your hands into the person. What I would say to anybody who is curious come and try it. Difficult to describe, difficult to explain and some people will think this is hilarious. However, I tried it and I found that I had the facility to deal with it. It took a while, it wasn’t easy. Some people can do it easily some people do it without even realizing they’re doing it. However, this is actually the core of it, you channel the energy through you into the other person. You can do it by using yourself, visualise yourself as a flower opening up or a box opening up and that you become the receiver from the energy from above through you coming out through your hands. (So…) I won’t go into any further details simply because it’s something that people need to try but that is the core of it.

KRZYS:         But, as, as always every, every therapy is own personal and even you know everyone, whatever therapy is describing or feeling completely different, that’s why you know, that’s why what we learn how to treat people don’t treat them everyone the same because (Exactly) everyone is different so every touch going to affect you know, even the tissue of the energy level or the psychological level it’s going to affect completely different, so…

JENNIE:         Exactly! (You) So it’s just like being Reiki or Shiatsu or Sacro-cranial or Craniosacral all of those using the same energy, they just channel it differently. And they use it differently. But it’s the same energy, it’s no different (You) it’s a special energy.

KRZYS:         You already mentioned but that was, that there’s lots of different things and names you throw in like Chakra Balancing, Crystal Therapy, Reiki, (Yeah) what else?

JENNIE:         Well there, there (so that) kind of people preference.

KRZYS:         So, that shows us the difference well of other therapies, (Well) which…

JENNIE:         The, you, when you’re healing, there are multiple ways that you can use the energy work you can use it purely with the client silent lying and receiving the energy. However, it’s useful to have a consultation beforehand to find out if there’s anything particularly affecting them, or anything particularly affecting any parts of the body so that you can focus. The argument is that the body receive the energy and do what it wants with it. If they’ve got a bad knee you may be focusing your energy around the knee but it may be taken by the body and used to absorb and to handle something else like emotional distress. What you can’t do is make the body do what you want it to do the body does what it wants with it. However, you can use other methodologies alongside it, so, if you’re looking spiritually and I use the word loosely, spiritually is to do with your spiritual approach as in mind body spirit as in she’s spirited; well a person with a great mindset spirited not that you necessarily believe in God spirits angels or whatever, I don’t. I’m very, very clear as an energy healer although I’m qualified as a spiritual healer because that’s a name I was given I don’t use the word because it is confusing and misconstrued. I do not believe in God, I never have done, and it’s very unlikely I will. Therefore, I do not want anybody to believe that that is who I am or what I do. Because that would be inappropriate. So, therefore, I call myself an energy healer so I use the energetic field to work with people.

KRZYS:         Yeah, cause even, even in my sense I would, you know if you said spiritual I would say you’re probably healing my soul or something like that, (Well), (laughter) but if it comes to you know energy healer I would say yeah the spirit and energy are two different things. So…

JENNIE:        They are, because you see soul gets in there as well and the company that I trained with was, were called Soul Therapy because they struggled to find the right word to explain what they were doing. I don’t think soul therapy is correct either but nobody has actually found something that everybody is universally happy with, so we continue seeking. However, another part of it is that you’re not only working energetically with the body but you’re engaging the mind. And so you may be using things like meditation, visualisation to accompany the healing. (Breathing) which, pardon?

KRZYS:         Breathing?

JENNIE:         Breathing is an integral part of it, and breathing is the forerunner in helping people to relax. And there are techniques of relaxation to enable people to get to a calmer state, to be able to receive the healing and be able to use their mind you can, you can use visualisations which are as strong as they can be to implant activity in people’s minds. You can get them to visualise doing something not see themself doing it but be doing it. So, that therefore they are implanting muscle memory and there’s a fighting chance they may be able to do it at some point in time. People use these kinds of techniques for anything from losing weight to stopping smoking. I don’t do that, that’s a little bit superficial but I use it for working with people with health issues, emotional issues relationship issues. I’m currently working with somebody who’s been a client for a long time recently diagnosed with cancer and we’re using meditation to visualize the cancer to find a way for them to expunge the cancer from their body it’s a concept, not a reality. But what’s it doing, is helping them face the challenge of it and to find a way to live with it. It doesn’t solve the problem, you don’t cure in the same way as you don’t cure when you’re massaging. However, it’s an aid, it’s a help it’s support and if you get into the complex world of the advertising, the ASA you want to make sure that you don’t make any claims to do something that you can’t do, so you’re an enabler you’re a helper you’re a supporter. And the energy work people find very helpful because many times people who come for energy work have become less committed to allopathic medicine. They feel maybe they’re not being listened to. They know that you can’t make them better, you can’t heal them but you can help the process and you can help them face the process in the same way as counselling help people tackle it. So, I mean this is getting kind of quite confusing but there are tools that you can use as part of the energy healing. Chakra is an inevitable part of it, these are all eastern style approaches to self-healing (Yes) and using crystals, it’s entirely up to the individual who’s receiving what they want. I had a woman who came the other day for the first time huge issues, which obviously I won’t go into. Who wanted Healing and Chakra Balancing, but she didn’t want meditation. She didn’t want to do visualisations, she didn’t want vocalisation, she didn’t want to consider colour. She just wanted to lie there and receive. And that’s quite challenging because you got no tools left apart from you and the channelling. However, it did actually, work within the parameters that we expected. And she left in a far calmer state with a more open mind and then came up with the best line at the end of it, was, “well actually, actually I did see a colour but didn’t feel like telling you”. And in fact, it was colour associated with communication but it was a fascinating experience and I had to pull out all the stops because otherwise, you can use meditation, visualisation, breathing, relaxation techniques all sorts of different things to enable the process. But if you’ve just gotten your core like somebody who doesn’t want anything else, they just want core massage, get on and do it.

KRZYS:         Yeah, thank you. So, what…

JENNIE:         I hope that answers your question.

KRZYS:         That’s def.…, few others as well but I just want to point a few pointers. So what’s, what sort of issues energy healing can address?

JENNIE:         It’s interesting because you would consider that mostly they would be dealing with emotional issues but not always, people will sometimes come for energy work when they’ve actually got physical problems but they’ve actually not consulted anybody. Not a doctor, not an Osteopath, not a Physiotherapist for them. Sometimes physical issues can actually be generated by emotional distress where you then explore through a systemic therapeutic process what might be the trigger. I won’t go into details, but I did have one man who I asked a couple of questions of and suddenly he went “oh my God, that’s because I’m not happy with what I’m doing I’m now going to sort that out”, and suddenly all those awful pains in his legs went away, interesting. Very rare however most people are looking for some kind of emotional release; I see for healing a lot of people with many questions. People who are, a lot of people from India and the far East who are used to it, people who’ve tried many different techniques to help focus and relax, and can’t. People suffering from PTSD, a lot people who suffer from abuse at various times this seems to be a spiritual haven for them to explore themselves, without having to put themselves through emotional, physical distress. Sometimes people want massage with healing sometimes they want healing with massage some others they come along and they don’t know what they want. And you talk to them until you can actually see through the confusion into what it is they want, usually, they just need to talk. I would add that I also did counselling training, so I can do that. (Okay) If you don’t, in the same way as any therapy work within the scope of your knowledge and your training. If you do have training, I mean it’s not full training but I do know what I’m doing, in terms of I’m able to ask questions and help tackle things, and because you can do that and that’s why people come. I do often find that there’s a lot of emotional issues going on with the individuals. Sometimes I’m able to help and support and sometimes I’m not. Simply because whatever is going on with them is something that maybe bigger than anybody can deal with. But a lot of things like tension, insomnia, headaches, work life balance challenges (Yes) trying to take on too much. Fear a lot of fear a lot of anxiety. Calming people giving them tools they can take home with them to help relax is a key element of this. What they’re really wanting is to go away with a couple of meditations and a couple of visualisations they can use in their own home in their own time to help them tackle some of the issues they are dealing with. (So can) I, I live and work in London so, London is a place it’s just full of people with vast amounts of anxiety. Yeah, if they were working in, in the middle of, of Cornwall maybe not so much. I don’t know but it’s a bit rough here and they need all the help they can get.

KRZYS:         So, can you feel the energy? In your experience how does like for you and what clients experience, what feedback did you have from them?

JENNIE:         It’s, it’s depending, each person is different. my hands, I have incredibly warm hands I’ve got very hot hands it means that as Massage Therapist I don’t need to warm them up you go straight in like you (Inaudible 37:42)

KRZYS:         The same I was (It’s like) being complimenting on that.

JENNIE:         It’s like having my own personal hot water bottle, (laughter) thank you. When I work over people channelling the energy, I feel two different things. I feel heat and cold and I feel tingling and it varies, so, particularly with say, the first time you ever massage somebody and you start with the hold. I’ve always started with the hold on the small of the back and between the shoulder blades and I will feel the energy, I will feel it pumping. You know the people have got here, they’ve maybe had a bit of a journey getting here parking and there all a little bit over active and my intention is to calm all that energy. When I’m working people by non-touch I can still feel that I can feel the difference in the heat in different parts of the body.  I can feel changes in parts of the body where there may be health issues sometimes it’s as simple as not feeling heat on a part of the leg and you find out they’ve got a metal plate in there. You know, it’s, its everybody is different, however, what it does is it gives you a guide to what is going on. (So, can) And when I work I try to push as much energy into those areas. When you give and it’s working you receive back you get healing back it’s a very strange experience so that it becomes a cooperative experience and so I receive healing as I’m giving it. Unbelievably, but that’s the way that it works. Sometimes they can feel it, sometimes they can’t. Sometimes you can actually feel it like something actually physical and hard. I worked on a man once and I put my hand over his solar plexus he was lying face up supine, and I put my hand over his solar plexus and I got a bang in my hand from whatever was going on with him (Oh wow) and he and I both went “oh” at the same time I was in the middle of my training at the time and I didn’t really think I had the feel of it, that, that gave me the support to know and I threw this energy back into him and he felt amazing afterwards. He was the, he had received a, he came from Zimbabwe and he’d been involved politically, and he had been beaten and stabbed and many other things and this helped him to reappraise himself. But that’s what it is, sometimes you will find nothing and sometimes you will find something. However, the intention by the end of a session is that you would have balanced out the energy and the heat running across the body so that in fact the body is flowing naturally. In the same way, as we would want to re-engage homeostasis with a massage client you would do the same thing with an energy client. And there are times when you get an awful lot of heat coming from someone and eventually when it comes then you’ve actually achieved what you set out to do. That’s how it works for me, it might be entirely different from every other spiritual energetic healer working in the country, that’s me.

KRZYS:         So how do you explain to the clients what to expect from the treatment?

JENNIE:         Well I tell them, what I tell them that I’m going to be giving energy to them and that they will be receiving it and their body will do what it wants with it. I sometimes ask them to tell me what they’re feeling they often volunteer it. Most of the time they are not necessarily able to. I had a very interesting experience many years ago I have several much younger brothers, the youngest of whom is extremely sceptical and he came along to a healing clinic I was taking part in. And he was quite cheeky and I said to him right, you’re going to lie down, you’re going to shut up and you’re going to close your eyes and in half an hour I’m going to ask you how you feel. And I gave him very particular messages, very particular treatments behaviours, used my hands in a certain way and in the end of it, I said I put my hand on his shoulder which is what I always do to say come round and he sat up and he said wow. And he described pretty much everything that I had done. Now yes, we have the same father who would’ve been a dissenting adult, he would have thought that this was ludicrous and my brother is now a firm component, involved recommender of everything that I do because for him it worked. Now yes, we have the same father so maybe we have more cellular structure in common whatever. (Together) However, he found it amazing and he sends lots of his friends to me for all sorts of different treatments. (Brilliant) You know, there you go. He’s an example, but you mentioned earlier on about people being sceptical. Quite often the sceptics are the ones who are probably more open because they are determined not to be connected. And I think that if you’re determined not to be then there’s a reason why. And all the people who resist healing and all sorts of different therapies like that find themselves very, very quickly connected to it. Like the man who is in my energy intuition workshop at the MTI conference. Those people often have that element but they actually in many ways don’t want to address it. It’s not always necessarily the case but it’s a possibility.

KRZYS:         (Laughs) So before the session what preparation do you, you do any preparations? I don’t know summons the energy dance around or? (Laughter)

JENNIE:         I, I make sure that my space is clear. I do visualizations to clear make sure that there’s no residual energy from previous clients or anything else that’s happened in the room. I send out emotional connectivity to the person, welcome them so that they are kind of connected to me spiritually before they walk in through the front door. When it comes, if I’m using crystals I clean them. I’ve removed any other people’s energy from them. I have a couple of methods of doing that and also, I clear myself. I maybe do a little bit of preparation in the same way that you do a massage. Make sure that I’m ready focused all the obvious stuff like clean, clean hands, being to the loo, clean teeth but it’s much more than that its being actually prepared welcoming that person into your space and welcoming them to give them the opportunity to help solve a riddle that they may be coming for. So, I do, do all of that and when they’ve gone I do exactly the same thing in reverse, I clear it. I don’t turn people’s distress, some people who work in this field do, but that’s actually quite a negative thing to do. My intention is to disperse whatever anxieties they have not take them on. Very, very rarely do I become upset by something that somebody said, very, very rarely because I’ve heard just about everything, but you know, you have to be empathetic but you can’t become involved.

KRZYS:         That’s exactly you know another thing, because lots of people have, sometimes, sometimes they say, you know what after the session I felt so bad or, I don’t know the client gave me bad energy, I just felt really down. So how would you, what would, would you be advice to, for people like that?

JENNIE:         If, if you are finding that happening then you need to find a way to block that. It is not your role to absorb other people’s negativity. It’s your role to help them disperse that negativity. I heard stories of a man said that every time he removed negativity from people he chopped it down through the floor and then he realized he’d got a swirling mass of appallingness underneath his floor boards. What he’s doing is he’s embodying that energy into something which is tangible. Whereas actually, it’s a feeling, it’s a mood and if you can turn people through your work by helping them focus and become positive that’s what you’re aiming for that’s what I’m aiming for. Difficult to say and some people would tell on the go you’re talking rubbish. I think it’s a challenge but it is about dispersal of negativity as opposed to honing of negativity. People would say by using the word negativity you immediately give it credibility. What, I’m looking at is helping people find a fresh way to approach what they’re doing and to open up their minds to be well, to be open. I know that sounds a little bit, bit creepy mean. But it it’s about a mind set and it’s about managing how they live their life, managing their expectations.

KRZYS:         So how, how, how do you deal with this scepticism towards your work and the type of the therapy you do?

JENNIE:         I’m not particularly bothered about it. Because people who are sceptical won’t come. People aren’t going to come along and say I don’t think much of it but I’m here. Am I going to pay you a whole load of money? (Laughter) When I speak to people separately and they ask me questions about it, I’ll tell them what I think and what I feel and it’s entirely up to them (How they take it) to make a decision. It, it’s you know, you can’t, you can’t win them all. You know, I’ve I, I had, I had a series of incredibly rude emails from a man who insisted that he had cobbled off to go into hospitals to practice Shiatsu. Well there’s no way that happens because if you work in a hospital you have to have the permission of the consultant for every single client you work with. So, there’s no way he was walking in and out. He was incredibly rude very offensive and I thought well I know well I won’t engage with you because it’s a pointless exercise and, you know, off you go and do what you need to do but it’s not going bother me. So, the inevitable phrase is, you can’t win them all.

KRZYS:        That’s really good advice, just, yeah just leave it. Some people are just really stubborn and they, you can’t win their minds. Just (Actually) let them say, let them think whatever they think, just move on.

JENNIE:         Exactly, just move on. Don’t be bothered by it. If you allow it to get to you then you start owning it and again there’s no value in that.

KRZYS:         Okay, so what, what would be your advice to someone who is interested in this field of body work?

JENNIE:         That’s a really good question. The majority of people who are interested in this have probably already dabbled in some respect. My advice would be to find out a lot more about it. There are more self-help books out there than you could believe. Some of which are silly and some of which are recommended and accredited. Look around for different courses that you can do to learn more, short courses. I did a yearlong course on Chakra Psychology which was fascinating, I did a course on Feng Shui several courses on Feng Shui another one on Earth Healing, Dancing, Distance Healing. I trained with a particular organisation in North, North London but they don’t work anymore. There are a variety of places about for full on courses. Have a good look at what they are, see how much they’re charging and see who the Tutors are, see whether it’s for you. And explore experiment. My crystal work, I was recommended by a man who is now in America but is one of the top Crystal Therapists in the UK. He said don’t go and do courses, choose crystals you like the look of feel of and get the energy from, play with them try them and see how it feels go buy the books find out what they do find out what they do for you because what’s written in the book may not be what happens with you, cherry pick what you do in the same way as you would, we talked about CPD and Massage Therapy, try it. I did my course and as a consequence, I did a variety of courses on different things which I’ve already covered giving me my background. I need to do some more from now and I haven’t done any CPD on the spiritual healing side. I keep using the word even though I don’t use it. I need to do some more energy work to re-engage but I’ve got plans for a major massage therapy course that I’m going to do and then after that then I might do some more energy work but keep it up, keep going, keep trying talk to people, join groups that kind of thing (So, what’s the next) be part of a network that’s really important.

KRZYS:         What’s the next big massage thing you want to do?

JENNIE:         I’m actually going to do a Sports Diploma. My own organisation Hands-On Training is in the process of getting our Sports Diploma accredited. We are about three-quarters of the way there. We intend to be starting in February and I’m going to join in. I’m going to be teaching some of the stuff I’m already accredited to teach and learning the things that I don’t know. Which also gives me the capability at the end of it to be accredited to teach APMP and as well as practical with our Diploma students. But I think for me now it’s a good addition because I want to know in far greater detail what I can do with very key parts of the body rather than quality holistic that involves many, many conditions. I want to be able to go straight to the core of a particular problem and just deal with it and I think now’s the time for me.

KRZYS:         Brilliant. Thank you really for sharing that. The next question for you is, because a lot of people our listeners and subscribers are either just starting out or maybe they been in the business for just for a while but they’re still struggling on building their own businesses and practices. So, if you woke up tomorrow morning but you still possess all the experience and knowledge that you currently have but your business completely disappear forcing you to start from the scratch what would you do?

JENNIE:         I mean, either I would be in the same town or maybe I would be moving. It’s something that people do and they start fresh. I think to be perfectly honest from the assumption you’ve got all your skills and you’ve got all your qualifications that’s your call. The real way of getting a business kick started again is that you have to have a website that’s your call. If you don’t have a website people won’t find you. Once you’ve got your website, website up and running you’ve got multiple strands to connect if you have any past clients connect with them again they may have fallen off because you haven’t done any marketing or they may have fallen off because your rubbish, if you rubbish them then forget. But then I doubt that’s the case based on the quality of the training you have. Join local networks, become members of different organisations get on social media. I’ve found after a couple of years of sort of exploring that using social media can be very effective depends on the person. I look up all my MTI colleagues on Facebook and they’re really out there, you know, go and look on the Facebook members’ page and join up with people you are connected to find out what they’re doing. Find a way, the old days of, I mean business cards are good obviously, word of mouth is good but you need to be out there, you need to be connecting with people and you need to be prepared to do a lot of freebies before people start paying you. However, if you are committed you can just go back to the energy work and you can use your energy (Laughter) to bring in business. You just have to focus on how to do it. If you got the core skills people will come and if you’re starting in a new town you’ve got to make sure, pardon my French here “piss off your competitors” but you need to be out there and available. And just make sure you are clear on who you are, what you do what it is you’re offering and make sure that people get to know about it. So, if you’re, if you’re in a new area you need to do a lot of local checking up, finding out what’s on. You got to be in the place you’re got to be part of the community and you got to connect to other people in the community because that’s the way to do it. If you are for instance, if you got young kids you’re really lucky because you’ve already got the whole school run connectivity there. There’s a whole new world out there for people with children that those without children don’t have. Use everything, be you know, don’t be rude about it and don’t be obvious, but use everything.

KRZYS:         Brilliant, thank you really thank you for this valuable (Laughter) advice. So, the next part is all about you. (Yeah) So here is when we have a moment when we get some promotion of our guests; your courses, book, practice or anything you would like to share. So, we will give you a little bit of the freestyle time. Here we go.

JENNIE:         (Laughter) Well I’m not going to market my private business to you all because you’re Massage Therapists.  Unless there’s anybody in the North London area who wants to come along for a shared massage. What I would like to tell you about is my relatively new Massage School it’s called Hands-On Training. We were accredited three, four years ago and we are the third school in London that teaches the MTI accredited Diploma Course, Holistic Diploma Course. The other two are Bodyology and that’s with whom I’m trained and Quantum Metta. There both in central London, we are in North London and we work from the Education Centre at Whittington Hospital. Which is a great facility apart from slightly grubby carpets. We are now in the third year of our diploma course and we have doubled our numbers and we are already booking people for the 2018 Diploma (Brilliant) Course. On top of that, as I said before we are in the process of getting our new Sports Course accredited and that will be starting in 2018 as well. The numbers of people we take on our courses are quite limited because we believe in smaller rather than larger numbers to enable the teaching to be as quality as it is. So, if you’re interested in doing the sports course get in touch as soon as. In terms of CPD this year we have hosted three out of four workshops for the London and Home Counties MTI group, we’ve got one more left it’s on Sports Taping and it’s on Saturday, the 9th of September. We are running next month in August on the 5th and 6th a two-day Hot Stone Massage training course that’s with me, we’ve got a couple of spaces left. Great opportunity to come along and add something to your already working toolbox that involves only a little bit of time and is quite enjoyable. We’re also doing a workshop, we’ve got a couple in October, in the morning of the 8th of October I’m running the hospital, Massage for Hospital and Hospices workshop in the morning this is for people who want to work with the elderly, the infirmed in hospital and hospices, this is very, very different stuff, not your standard deep tissue but involves quite a lot of awareness of protocols. And in the afternoon, I’m running my Energy and Energetic Intuition Workshop, I do it on a couple of sessions a year and I did it at the last MTI Conference and it seemed to go down rather well. If you look on our website you will read some of the rather complimentary feedback comments that were getting. Finally, on the 4th of November, we are running a one-day Emergency First-Aid Course. That’s obviously for all of our diploma students before they qualify but also for anybody who needs to retake or anybody who needs to take it newly, we’ve got plenty of space on that, and I’m doing an Introduction to Massage also on the 4th of November, so if you know anybody who’s interested or curious or wants to learn about massage for home use, again everything is on our website and I believe Krzys is putting up our website details at the end, so you’ll have emails, telephone numbers website (So for, yeah) we’ve got Facebook page, we’ve got a Facebook Discussion Group and also we created a year ago a set of twelve short videos explaining how to do the practical side of massage no APMP cause we do actually want people to come and do the course. That’s on our YouTube channel, it’s racking up in numbers hugely and you will find again the link to our YouTube channel on our website. That’s about it. Come and enjoy our CPD, my co-director is Earle Abrahamson. Most of you will know him as the chair of MTI an extremely highly qualified Sports Therapist and Physiotherapist with a wicked sense of humour and a shocking level of punning, so if you can stand it come along and enjoy his particular brand of humour and training.

KRZYS:         Really, really thank you for sharing once. For eve, everyone in in London area and surrounding we are going to put all the details in the, in our short notes, for, for your access there.

JENNIE:         Thank you Krzys.

KRZYS:         So, the next part we have a Tag a Guest Game. So, we going to ask you who do you admire and why, and can you help us get recommendation for upcoming interview?

JENNIE:         Well the person is clear that I admire so, I felt extremely delighted when we met and decided to create a school together because he really is a man of considerable knowledge skill and talent. He also has a very, very attractive and easy way of teaching where APMP is not something to be feared but something to enjoy. And he teaches APMP as a language which you then become an integral part of. I would very much like to see Earle doing one of these podcasts his knowledge is huge so I have no idea what it would be that he would be the specialism he would deal with. One thing he did do a few years ago which is particularly special is he was initially asked to be part of the team working on the London Olympics which he did but then he became a member of the team working on the Paralympics. And he’d never worked with people with physical disabilities before and he found that challenging and interesting and a major learning point and maybe that’s something that would be of interest to people cause it’s not something that we as massage therapists tend to work with people with physical disabilities. And he will give you some extremely interesting insights into that. So, my recommendation is Earle, enjoy what he has to say understand the fact that he does have a stammer which he manages very well indeed and when he gets into the swing of it, guess what, it disappears. So, he’s my recommendation. Krzys knows how to contact him we will all work towards asking him if he has enough free time to be able to do this.

KRZYS:         And really, really thank you very much. And that will really, really interesting because working with disabilities, myself as Mobile Massage Therapist I do work lots of Care Homes with people you know (Yeah) stuck in wheelchairs so that would be really, really interesting to get in the subject. So, this is really, really all great.  So, thank you very much for joining me here today you give us a lot great advice and really a lot of inspiration and positive energy of healing. So, let’s finish this show with the last piece of advice for our Busy Hive listeners and then we say goodbye. If you had just one thing from, for our listeners to take out of this episode what would it be?

JENNIE:         Be self-confident. Be self-confident in your knowledge and your training. And I would say the really key thing is to enjoy the experience of giving but also enjoy the experience of learning as an integral part of that. If you don’t keep learning then you atrophy. We are in a world now where we have access to pretty much anything that we want. Access it, don’t just disappear and keep doing the same thing, be fresh, be new, try new things and enjoy it.

KRZYS:         And enjoy it, that’s the best part. So how can we connect with you online?

JENNIE:         You can connect with me in a number of ways both my private practice which is called White Wave has a website and an email and a telephone address and my Massage School Hands-On Training has the same. I believe that at the end of this there will be links to those. So, I usually use a landline : A. because of the kind of message it gives for people to contact me initially and then I hand out my mobile. Most of you who are MTI people particularly London and Home Counties members have been to our workshops over the years you’ve all got it. Anybody wants to email me, anybody wants to ring me please do, I would be more than happy to give you any further advice or guidance meet for coffee, meet for chat, or meet for massage swap.

KRZYS:         Even better, thank you (Laughter) Jennie for joining me here at the Busy Hive Podcast and all the listeners interested in learning bit more about Jennie and workshops and the school and the courses or even Energy Healing, we have, as we mentioned we going to put all the information in our show notes for you out there on our website. So, Jennie it’s a pleasure to have you today on the show and thank you very much for all this chat today, bye for now.

JENNIE:         Thank you Krzys!


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