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On this episode of The Truth about Massage Therapy Podcast, Krzys interview Leora Sharp

BHP013 – It is possible to feel excited about your Marketing!?


Before she became interested in personal growth and wellness, she worked as a web designer in Johannesburg and London. She also did a few exciting web design stints in Chicago, San Francisco and Dublin. During these years she had the privilege to work on great brands such as BMW, Accenture, Orange, Coca-cola, Liberty of London, Harvey Nicols, Jamie Oliver, Microsoft, Irish National Lottery and much more. In fact, she was at the centre of the birth of web design back in 1996. During those 11 years in the industry, she gained an extensive knowledge and understanding of new media communications. She then realised that she wanted to work in, and from, a heart space rather than a corporate spaceShe felt a desire to help and support people through times of challenge and change. So with a few web awards under her belt, she left the internet industry and trained in Holistic massage and Bodywork at the Bristol School of Massage and Bodywork (for whom am now the web designer ). After a few years, with her massage practice in Bath established, she returned to internet world to see how she could help all you practitioner’out there get online. She is the founder and facilitator of The Bath Practitioner Group, a network of health and well-being practitioners in and around Bath. 


Favourite Quote:

“to focus on continual “self-improvement and self-development” ,

“be Happy”,

“dont do stress”

Tag a Guest Game:

Jay Ruddock and Sheena Harper at the Align Body Clinic

Links mentioned in this episode:


Social Media – Leora Sharp – The Webmistress
Twitter: The Webmistress



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KRZYS:                     So welcome Leora and thank you for joining me here at Busy Hive Podcast.

LEORA:                     Thank you Krzys, It’s great to be here I’m really happy to be chatting with you.

KRZYS:                     So, here at Busy Hive we like to start every show with our guest favourite quote. It’s our way to get everybody motivated and excited for the rest of the show and find out a little bit personal about you. So can you tell us what’s your favourite quote and why?

LEORA:                     Well, I battle to knock that down to one, so I think I need to say three.  A fundamental part of my idea for life is “to focus on continual “self-improvement and self-development,” So, I have a little joke with myself that every year I need to try to be the next best version of myself, so coming up in November it will be Leora four point three (4.3). (Laughter)

KRZYS:                     Ok. Well, I like that. (Laughter)

LEORA:                     So, yeah hopefully she will be better than Leora four point two (4.2). I have another idea, I think it was when I opened my first Facebook account and it asked me what my religion was? And I said, “Be happy” and I think since then that’s been a large focus of my life I end my emails with things, words like, instead of saying regards I say happiness or happy day, so that’s a really important part of my life (and I) and I think that’s a nice quote to hold.

KRZYS:                     Third one?

LEORA:                     And, the third one is, “Don’t stress“. Well, I don’t do stress actually sorry. I worked, when I was working in London I had a Project Manager when I was doing Web Designing in London, a Project Manager, who I came to one day and I must have been stressed and he looked at me and he said, Leora, I don’t do stress. So, I’ve held that little quote close to my heart, (Laughter) it’s really helpful.

KRZYS:                     Did he?

LEORA:                     Did he do stress?

KRZYS:                     Did he, you know, don’t do stress?

LEORA:                     He, he was just very clear that, yeah, you know don’t bring me your stress. I don’t do stress, so yeah, he didn’t do stress in fact he was an incredibly funny guy. Yeah, he was hysterical, he used to get sugar highs, (Laughter) that was very funny and then bounced around the office.

KRZYS:                     Oh, we all like sugar, and we, we don’t do like stress, but we sometimes do.

LEORA:                     Yeah, we have to do it, but I think it is helpful to just kind of make that decision, and say you know what, I, I don’t need to do this stress, I can choose not to quite frankly I can choose not to do this stress.

KRZYS:                     And, that’s always our decision, it’s always we think we blame everyone and everything around it but actually what, what stress, what we feel and how we feel and how we react to the stress situation. How we stress is only our own feelings, and only our decisions.

LEORA:                     Yes!

KRZYS:                     And we, well there’s a big point, we can decide, we can actually decide and tell ourselves how we want to feel and we can change that.

LEORA:                     Yeah, In an instant you can choose if you just take that one moment to step back, take a breath in a situation and say, well how am I going to choose to react to this or respond to this? Actually respond is a better way I think to think about something than to react. So, yeah take a step back and choose to respond without stress.

KRZYS:                     So let’s don’t do stress from now.

LEORA:                     I’ve, I’ve been doing it for a long time. Highly recommend it.

KRZYS:                     (Laughter) And thank you for sharing that. So here at Busy Hive we really focus on the beginnings of our journeys, because I think they are really important because we can learn a lot from them. So can you tell us how did you get started and how did you get to the point where are you today?

LEORA:                     Krzys, I, when I lived in South Africa, I, the college that I went to there, I did a training called Advertising Art and Graphic Design, and after I finished there I managed to land the job in Internet Design in one of the top ad agencies there. They were just starting their first design, their first Internet Agency. And there were about three of us we managed to do some really great websites for some great brands right in the beginning of the Internet industry, so this was ninety ninety-six (1996). I worked there for about two and a half (2½) years and then I moved to London, did a lot of corporate work., Platinum jewelry, cars, cigarette brands, batteries, I had a stint in Ireland, I went to Dublin, and I did have a great opportunity to work on the Irish National Lottery web sites. Landed a stint in Silicon Valley and Chicago and San Francisco, so, those were all awesome experiences all in web design. And, at some point I felt like I was losing my love for it. I think it was because I was freelancing, and so when I was finding out that a lot of, a lot of the nice big juicy jobs were landing with the permanently employed. So, I landed up doing simple stuff like banner ads, and no nice meaty stuff, and I got quite bored of that stuff and also bored of the corporate world.

KRZYS:                     Ok.

LEORA:                     And, in one of the locations, where I did some actually, my last permanent stint then so it was a bit of a mixture between, two years permanent, a couple of years freelance, and other two years permanent. And, I met a lady who came in and was doing massage once a week or, once a week, once a month or whatever it was and actually the agency at the time we were very sweet and they gave us, when it was our birthdays would be Leora two point five (2.5) at the time maybe. (Laughter) They gave us a massage for our birthdays.

KRZYS:                     So, that was like in an office massage?

LEORA:                     That was, yeah, office massage, but it was a table massage, and sometimes in my journey in London my friends kept telling me because I’ve got wondering hands my family always used to tell me that I had wondering hands. I was always rubbing people, and yeah it’s gross, you know playing with my grandfather’s hair, and or the hair that he had left, and so I thought to myself why don’t I go do an introductory weekend, for holistic massage? I did that, I think it was the Hollis School of Massage in London; I also did a one day Indian Head Massage.

KRZYS:                     Okay.

LEORA:                     And, then when I got that boredom and done this with the corporate world I thought you know what I’m going to leave England I’m going to go to Asia, do a bit of TEFL, Teaching English as a Foreign Language and also visit friends and family in Australia, kind of balance between Asia and Australia, sounded great. And one day I got a message from a friend saying “organizing a skiing trip in Chamonix, do you want to come?” And I thought, huh,God like, I’ve got to save money to go to Asia, and I thought you know what well if I’m going to Asia to find my next path when will I be back in Europe? When will I have another opportunity to ski with my mates? So I went, and we all met at Gatwick Airport and unbeknownst to me I met my husband on that day, and he was living in Bath at the time that was in January twenty, no, two thousand and six (2006), and we were married in July of two thousand and six (2006).

KRZYS:                     (Laughter) That’s very quick decision! Was like love straight, you know, from the first sight?

LEORA:                     It wasn’t love at first sight, but I had been single for a while because I was trying to sort out some stuff in my head, and I took time off from men. (Laughter) And I remember about two weeks before that trip I said to one of my very good friends Tanya, I said, “oh you know what Tans; I think I might be ready to invite someone into my life!” And then bam, there he was, and it grew quite quickly, not necessarily on that trip, but I think because then I was open to meeting people, I was curious, I was like who is this guy and we had some good chats and I remember always wanted to sit with him whenever we went for dinner or lunch on that trip. And when we left, we all parted our way at Gatwick, we said we should keep in touch, and yeah come visit me in Bath and he didn’t.

KRZYS:                     That’s how it started.

LEORA:                     Yeah, he visited me in London, I visited him in Bath, and we were at a party one night and he just, he looked at me and he said, “Will you marry me?” (Laughter) I think that was in April, that was February, and you want to get married in April? I said “you know what there something cool going on her but maybe you want to ask me again when you think we might be a little more ready; (Laughter) and yeah, then I accepted his offer about two weeks later.

KRZYS:                     So, you married and moved to Bath, yeah?

LEORA:                     Moved to Bath, thank you, and when I arrived here I thought well there’s no way I can go to agencies and ask them if they would like me to work for them because there was no heart in it. So I called up the lady who massaged me in that office in Bath and I said, where did you do your training? And she said “Bristol School of Massage and Body Works with Andy Fagg”, and she said it was amazing great training look no further. So I didn’t and I was on training in two thousand and seven (2007). I did, I did it with a good freelance work to, for my older clients, my London clients, and I was really lucky on that training I think, because I was cutting down freelance work all, or not, not encouraging much, and found myself in a new marriage, and being financially supported and luckily being two of us, so I didn’t have to bring so much money in and I could really put my heart and soul into all the homework and all the practice time that goes into that training. I felt really sorry for everyone who was on the course and had full-time jobs I just thought, my god when are you guys getting the time to do the homework, so I felt really lucky, I was really grateful that I was in that situation, and after that, I built my massage business. Realized that it was a very solitary business, and started a group called Bath Practitioner Group, which is still going today.

KRZYS:                     Where is it?

LEORA:                     Sorry?

KRZYS:                     So where is the group?

LEORA:                     It’s a group, a support group basically we meet once a month, sorry, we used to meet once a month for talks and demonstrations and alternating with support sitting around and basically talking shop. So we do that every two months now, between five and ten people generally and we talk anything from marketing to handling difficult clients, so it’s for all health and wellbeing practitioners. And it’s just a fantastic place to be because it’s like having supervision, but supervision you normally only with your group, the people who practice the same thing. (Yeah) And so the Bath Health and Wellbeing, The Bath Practitioner Group, is anybody and everybody’s, so as a Massage Practitioner going to that group I can receive information and help from a coach. Let’s say with a difficult client the coach might be able to say, “oh well maybe you could say to the client, have you thought about X…?”

KRZYS:                     Yeah.

LEORA:                     So, it’s a great mix of giving and receiving information.

KRZYS:                     And of different, different practitioners than just massage?

LEORA:                     Yeah, different modalities.

KRZYS:                     Okay, brilliant!

LEORA:                     And so of course I, from running that group and from doing some deep training, I landed up meeting tons practitioners who said to me, who built your Web site? And somebody keeps calling me and telling me that they can get me to the top of Google, and is that correct should I sign up to that? So all these questions kept coming. How can I get online really cheap? So, I thought, oh, maybe there is a way I can help this group of people, and bam, I was back into Web Design. (Laughter) So, sometimes when I look at that little journey, I think to myself maybe one of the reasons that I did the training, yeah, with the bigger picture!

KRZYS:                     Yes!

LEORA:                     If, we believe in this way of thinking. One of the reasons I landed up doing the training was so I could help practitioners in business, because it such a great place to come from to be a practitioner myself, and then to help practitioners get online, to help them stay online, support them in their business, support them with marketing workshops, website improvement workshops. You know, we meet at the same place right away; it’s much easier for practitioners to call me up and feel like we’re on the same page right away than it is to make that big scary call to this random corporate company.

KRZYS:                     Ok. So let’s just keep this, keep this on the site. So you start the Web Mistress, you become Massage Practitioner, and now you’re helping people with the marketing and building their websites, and as you said you know destiny that things sometimes happen.

LEORA:                     Destiny. Thank you.

KRZYS:                     Things sometimes happens, like I always said, and laugh about that now because you know I, well I have done acting for quite a long time when I was back in Poland and well I’ve done a few movies, lots of theatre parts and I just kind of left, you know just been there and you know actually. I kind of come back now because now when I podcast and talk to people, I had a thought because I was really, really well stressed about doing the podcast because of my language, and you know and everything but I thought you know what, you’ve done all this acting, so actually that’s just to help you to be able to do this, you are not meant to be actor, and be famous and have lots of money and everything. (Laughter)

LEORA:                     Yeah.

KRZYS:                     You know you did that, so you have some of them sort of experience to be able to talk to people, to bring the inspiration and aspiration (Yeah) you know to be. So that’s let’s just separate a few different things; (sure) let’s just talk about you as a Therapist. So, when you start as a therapist what was one of the challenges when you had when you started? Can you share one of the things?

LEORA:                     Ironically stress, or not stressing. So I, you know if I was finishing an appointment late, I would get a bit stressed about that, or if someone arrived early when I was working from home, in the beginning, someone might arrive early when I was with another client and there was nowhere for them to wait, and you know I get really stressed. Have to go downstairs let them in, I mean you know ask them, “you know I’m still with the other client can you wait?”  and have to obviously be polite with them, and without showing that I was stressed but I probably did show that I was stressed and then having to practice to well having to come upstairs and get my hands on to a client again when I was literally shaking from stress.

KRZYS:                     Yeah.

LEORA:                     And yeah, I think that was quite a challenge.

KRZYS:                     So how did you overcome it?

LEORA:                     Practice. (Laughter) Practice makes perfect with anything.

KRZYS:                     Experience, yeah!

LEORA:                     Yeah, and, and surely definitely accessing breath. You kno, coming back into the room before I even enter back into the room, for example, Just delving into breath, (Leora breathing) coming back to my clients, making the contact as calmly as possible and then just forgetting what happened.

KRZYS:                     I could really, really relate to that, because I did it quite stressed, yeah when I started as well and doing the mobile stuff; traffic and being on time, and then you had to finish and I always did good in you know having that you know hour and planned hour but there is always some stuff and I actually know to learn to just stop for the second, you know I always, oh my God, you know if I stop for a second I’m going to ruin this time of the client. No, just put those hands on the clients; just have three, one two breaths.

LEORA:                     Yeah

KRZYS:                     It’s a few seconds, you’re going to do both therapeutically, both of you better, and just actually worried about the time and those few seconds or even half a minute it’s fine but as you said it comes with the practice and experience.

LEORA:                     Yeah, and I think also having to write just repetition, repetition, repetition, and realization actually as well that; 1. we are human and 2. The clients not that they don’t care, but…

KRZYS:                     They understand.

LEORA:                     ….they are okay with it, they understand. It’s like it’s out of my control that the client, the next client arrived early, it’s out of your control that you might be late because of the traffic, and then all of the stress just dissipates.

KRZYS:                     But, exactly learning this that actually, you can do nothing about it so it’s not a point.

LEORA:                     Now, don’t do stress. (Laughter)

KRZYS:                     Don’t feel stress. But it comes with the practice and it by does, and it does. And you get better the same exactly, but with practice you get better, as well as you working on your skills to be Massage Therapist, but personally you know being a massage therapist is a big learning curve, and a learning way, journey to actually work personally on yourself on your own you know we still are humans, we still have the same problems, same issues, same you know physical, mental, and psychological.

LEORA:                     Yeah.

KRZYS:                     The thing is we are helping other people.

LEORA:                     Yeah, yeah, exactly and it is a big journey through helping them, learning to help them and learning to just be okay with ourselves as we go, and we’re learning as we go all the time, yeah, for sure.

KRZYS:                     Amazing. Thank you really for sharing that, so the next part is always my favourite part, because we just diving into the part of our client’s work, which you know we read, we relate to it, so that’s the part of the order so web mistress, okay. So let’s chat, which I’m just going to ask you a few questions so we can gather just really amazing insight from you, as an expert, so you know I love your adverts, you know when you’re advertising about the marketing it is possible to feel excited about the marketing.

LEORA:                     Yeah, she was.

KRZYS:                     So, let’s get excited, so what is marketing?

LEORA:                     What is marketing? Well, it’s actually broader than we might originally think. I’m going to say Website number one. Website, social media, leaflets, networking, and networking can feel like a bit of a scary word, so let’s rather think about it as meeting people, talking to groups, running ads in local magazines, and actually just being yourself as well, when you are with people. Yeah, you agree with that?

KRZYS:                     I really agree with that, because as well there are a lot of big companies and they copy each other and they saw great in everything what’s the best from you and your marketing is you.

LEORA:                     Yeah.

KRZYS:                     Yourself, your approach that’s why people who love you, that’s why people love what you do, because it’s you, it’s not the other person, it’s not your company, it’s not something it just always brings the part of you, how you feeling to your business to what you do, even if it’s marketing, advertisement, business planning, whatsoever.

LEORA:                     Yes, so your marketing needs to reflect who you are, and I’m glad you mentioned that because as you were talking I have these recollections of websites that I go to where it’s one practitioner, and they talk about we, they say we will help you de-stress, or get over your aches and pains, or structurally align you, and it’s just one practitioner, but they seem to feel like they need to come across as this big business, when actually they don’t, and it’s quite okay to refer to yourself on your website as me, you know.

KRZYS:                     When it’s just you?

LEORA:                     When it’s just you, yeah, and that way you talk from the heart, where all your information is from the heart and it’s just about you working with the potential clients reading the information, it’s not we work with patience, its, I work with you.

KRZYS:                     That’s a really good example because I had the same struggle, people were telling me you have to put we on a website and you change we to you know, so you sound like a big professional company you know, it’s like, no and the same with the colour you know everyone choose blue because that’s the colour of help, and you know when you see the blue you think  and just and you feel health, like, no I’m orange, I’m orange, that’s my colour.

LEORA:                     You’re orange, and I’m purple.

KRZYS:                     Yeah.

LEORA:                     That’s quite a good colour combination actually

KRZYS:                     Exactly! And you know there are some certain way and things you can, you should do or you can do, guidance lines but always break them always do what’s right for you.

LEORA:                     Do what’s right for you, you have to also consider what the client might like, so you know I might like pink and orange together, but if I am more medical base let’s say for example, if I am a structural practitioner it might be better for the website to actually be those blue that you mentioned, because it reflects their kind of clinical work.

KRZYS:                     Yes.

LEORA:                     But, for someone like you, you’re orange, you know that’s great you know orange is coming from your heart, orange is coming from your personality and that’s the kind of client you want to attract.

KRZYS:                     And, that exactly reflects. So, why do we need marketing and why marketing is important for our business?

LEORA:                     Well, you can’t really sit back and hope that your clients are going to come bursting down your door, as much as we’re good at what we do, and we want to help everybody. They have to find out about you from somewhere, and from all those avenues that I mentioned before websites, social media networking, and leaflets. Getting in with for example, if you specialize in working with let’s say athletes or rock climbers or not specializing well with rock climbers, but that kind of athletic type of person. You can then take your information all your marketing that you’ve done and work towards finding that group of people.

KRZYS:                     Okay.

LEORA:                     Let’s come back to the question because I’ve veered off. It’s an important and it’s an important veer, but…

KRZYS:                     Is like why, why marketing is important to our business?

LEORA:                     Great! Thank you. Sorry, so because you’ve got to get the people to come to you.

KRZYS:                     Yeah.

LEORA:                     Right so you’ve got to go to locations whether it’s with flyers and even flags or whether it’s getting a website out there, you’ve got to have different shock windows all over the place for people to access to be able to find out about you and access you.

KRZYS:                     So, in other words, I’d like to use the word visibility.

LEORA:                     Thank you.

KRZYS:                     Is that something?

LEORA:                     Yes very much.

KRZYS:                     Because I always say marketing is a lot of words and lots of definitions and lots of stuff, which, well I’m getting it and you know, because of the business, but for me still, you know that’s not my thing, but I work really you know in a sense of different wording and individually stuff and actually marketing always sounds for me just being a visual and visibility basically, show off yourself to the world.

LEORA:                     Yes! Exactly! Exactly! Which by the way can be quite challenging for practitioners and…?

KRZYS:                     Why?  Why do you think that?

LEORA:                      Because from my experience in working with many now, it feels…

KRZYS:                     Why do we practitioners struggle with that?

LEORA:                     Because we just want to be in a room helping people. We are not necessarily client facing…

KRZYS:                     Business.

LEORA:                     And wanting to put ourselves out there. Some of my clients kind of freak out even at the idea of having a website, they say oh my god, then I’m going to be up on the Internet and people will see me, so…

KRZYS:                     And that, it is a struggle but, I remember when I was working on my website and I was like, oh my god, my name will be there, my face will be on the photos actually I had, you know I’m quite open and but I had this thought in my head.

LEORA:                     Yeah, a semi-block.

KRZYS:                     To be you know, but at the moment we live in the world when that’s, what it is and that’s how we progress and unfortunately solving which we need to incorporate and it’s important thinking you know you don’t have to do it all at once we can just start with you a few different things.

LEORA:                     Correct.

KRZYS:                     So, what in your mind, what will be you know, what’s the best thing?

LEORA:                     The best marketing things to start with?

KRZYS:                     Yeah.

LEORA:                     I believe it’s web site, because when you go somewhere, let’s say you go to a networking event or let’s just call it a people meeting event, because even for example the support group the Bath Practitioner Group I was talking about earlier that is networking, we’re meeting other practitioners who can potentially refer to us, but if we don’t have a website to point people to. It’s not really helpful to get ourselves out there, people need information they want to see us, they potentially want to see us working, so you know having a YouTube thing on your website with you working, if it’s appropriate. The reason I say that because potentially as a counsellor you can’t necessarily record a counselling session and you know have that on a website, but as a Massage Practitioner we can, so yeah, number one, put a core website for people to refer to.

KRZYS:                     So, how much does it cost you to implement the marketing in your practice, what do you, what’s what costs?

LEORA:                     I think, what is a good figure to have to start out with for your first year is about a thousand pounds and that would get you a website obviously depending on who did it for you, or you know you might even be able to do that yourself, there is still costs you know, you would need to buy your web address, you need to have e-mail, so there are still costs even if you create your own website.

KRZYS:                     Okay.

LEORA:                     But, I think about Web sites, leaflets, maybe some social media lessons and some help setting up social media…

KRZYS:                     Business cards?

LEORA:                     Business cards yeah, and you can keep those minimal, you know print because you don’t have to do big print runs anymore, you can print two hundred fifty leaflets for and delivered to your door for forty-five pounds.

KRZYS:                     From where can you recommend anything?

LEORA:                     Many places, Bookmarks, Vista Prints, Instant Prints, A Local Printer, tons of online stuff.

KRZYS:                     Okay.

LEORA:                     But, what I can do is I can send you some links, and maybe you can put them under the podcast.

KRZYS:                     Yeah, that’s what I’m going to do. So, imagine you’re a new Therapist and just starting out, and there’s no money, there’s no money for marketing there’s nothing. You know you mentioned you know in the first year you have to spend thousands, Okay, but there’s no money, nothing like…

LEORA:                     Yeah.

KRZYS:                     What are the options?

LEORA:                     Can I ask that? Can I answer that in two ways?

KRZYS:                     Yes!

LEORA:                     The first answer is you can do your own website, you can do a free Website and you can get some free business cards from Vista Print or for very minimal, so that’s my first answer, is free stuff free stuff out there. What I feel is important to raise in this in the second answer to that question is, we need to realize that we’ve put money into training and when we finish that training we are starting a business and a business needs a budget…

KRZYS:                     So we as a therapist we don’t think about who, we want to help people…

LEORA:                     I know… I know.

KRZYS:                     That’s no business.

LEORA:                     That’s why I thought I needed to answer the question in two ways, because there are free stuff out there, but we need to realize that we are in business as scary as that would sound as scary as it feels, we’ve got to go out and get a budget, got to make a marketing plan and get some budget or don’t make a marketing plan and ask your partner, your parents, your sister, your brother to help you up with some budget, because you just simply can’t build a business without budget, because your hands will always be tied.

KRZYS:                     That’s especially when you start up there’s always a cost, there’s always a staff and I think a really important thing, there are a lot of things you can think about it but you don’t have to get them all at once, there is just you know to plan the budget have a list of things you want to do, or you know which are things you need to do and things you want to have and that’s kind of prioritize and just add one thing to just start with, this one, start with this one start with another one and slowly build up, I think that’s always advised, that was with me and when I started up you know, I didn’t have much money nor the training cost

LEORA:                     Of course.

KRZYS:                     It cost quite a lot, and it was the same I build my website on

LEORA:                     On Wix, yeah.

KRZYS:                     On, which was completely new for me I haven’t build a website before.

LEORA:                     Well done.

KRZYS:                     And, you know and I just trials and stuff and just kind of you know after work at night spending a few hours just to try and play with it and just creating it really, and then so on later on you know the business cards and everything, so I know want loads but I didn’t rush it, you know what as soon as I got some money, I put this in there.

LEORA:                     I think what you’re saying importantly is that you had a plan.

KRZYS:                     Yes.

LEORA:                     A, B, C. Tic, tic, tic. And as a business, you have to have a plan, indeed. Well done for setting up your own website, did you do that with stress or without stress?

KRZYS:                     Lots of stress.

LEORA:                     Okay.

KRZYS:                     With lots of stress you know. What’s amazing because you don’t use code and you know building a website is quiet you know especially when you coding and stuff to make everything, when I was working is quite difficult and you know this Web site allows you to just you know click and pencil in more stuff around, However, it’s still not that easy.

LEORA:                     Correct, yes it can still be a little bit difficult to do and what I always think about that is, that’s a great starting point if you can do it and preferably doing it without stress that’s great, but there is something to remember and that is just because you might have been able to get it together, It doesn’t mean that it’s going to bring in business. And I think that’s a really important thing, because for example if you want to massage, are you going to do it yourself or are you going to go to a massage practitioner and pay them to do it for you?

KRZYS:                     Yeah, well there’s always a few options and there are other things we can, we need to think about, true.

LEORA:                     Yes, exactly and if someone does go ahead and do their own website, because of limited budget that’s great, my suggestion is then after getting some plans in putting some budget aside and then potentially finding someone who can look at it with you, and take it to the next level and improve it.

KRZYS:                     And invest, that’s just the next step on Investing in yourself.

LEORA:                     It’s like, it’s actually reinvesting because you’ve invested in your training.

KRZYS:                     So, now let’s say imagine we pass the starting point when we don’t have any money, and we get some limited money. What is your suggestion on prioritizing?

LEORA:                     I think that would actually be probably the next step is finding someone who can help you improve what you’ve done. Or potentially take you to help you with social media lessons and some flyers, because when you do go out and meet people or when you do go into a talk. That’s another one by the way, of course, that’s free, that’s free you can go and do a talk somewhere to a group of people and talk to them about the benefits of massage for stress, for example, but when you’re there you need some flyers to leave with people. So, I think that would be your next port of call you’ve got your website, you’ve got all your information out there whether you’ve done it yourself or you got someone to do it with you. Next port of call, flyers I don’t bother with business cards really, because I find a flyer has more heart and soul in, it only has to be double sided it doesn’t need to be folded, So it’s called a DL you know like a skinny envelope size, that’s a DL double side and that’s enough, because I feel like if I go somewhere let’s say to a networking meeting and I give someone that flyer, it’s got my heart and my soul on it of my business. And, if they leave and they bump into a friend for example, who says Oh my God I’m incredibly stressed out they could take their fly out there bag and they could give it to that mate, and that mate will have a stronger message through the flyer than having just a business card.

KRZYS:                     Okay.

LEORA:                     That’s how I feel about business cards right now, I have some and they can come in handy at some points, but there’s a little bit more of a message on a flyer.

KRZYS:                     I really like that idea, and I agree. Well at the moment I use because, yeah it’s a different approach you know a different way you do. I always use business cards because it’s just for me you will seem more professional, and that’s just how I did it. I’ve done leaflets but in a sense of just leaving them everywhere, but I liked the idea is just to use your you know leaflets to design them to the sense, that’s what your business card is, and it’s more of you, give that instead of the, yeah.

LEORA:                     I think that business cards are a little bit of a throwback from the eighty’s before websites. The same as, you know when you do your marketing you don’t have to have tel and then your telephone number…

KRZYS:                     Hello! Here’s my business card.

LEORA:                     Yeah, it’s not like that anymore, do people keep business cards in their wallets? I don’t know, I don’t think so because they can just Google you. So, I think they’re a little bit of a throwback. For me, they don’t have enough parts to them. It’s just not enough information on there to encourage entice someone to maybe go and look a little bit more there’s a small message and that’s about it.

KRZYS:                     So, what would you advise to put on that leaflet? So what’s?

LEORA:                     Right. A picture would be preferable, and the main message on the top of the flyer, because it needs to be on the top in case of leaflets breaks are kind of doubled up, it would have teared double up and so maybe only the top of your flyer will show. Your main message and your main message is not massage or chiropractic or remedial massage your main message is, the benefit of your treatment, so for example, or a feeling about what you do, so on the top of my massage flyer it says, I’ve just changed it recently I keep changing it, because things most evolve.

KRZYS:                     As Leora.

LEORA:                     As Leora, yep exactly. Fly at ten point five (10.5).

KRZYS:                     Yeah.

LEORA:                     So, now it says nurture and supports yourself during illness, anxiety, stress, and bereavement. So, that is a much stronger message than a holistic massage.

KRZYS:                     Yes.

LEORA:                     Because, if someone, it’s stronger for people who are looking for it and it’s also stronger for people who might be looking for it for their friends, so for example I’ve got a text message a few months ago that said, “I’ve just picked up your flyer in harbours and”, which is a health food store, “I’m going to recommend it to a friend of mine who is incredibly stress right now”. So, if that flyer main message said holistic massage that person probably wouldn’t have picked it up because it doesn’t mean a thing to the majority of people, the same as may be Shiatsu or Reiki. So, if someone practises Reiki, there’s very little point saying Reiki and your name and your telephone number on the front of a flyer. It’s much more appropriate and would call in your target market, by specifying what is the result of the treatment, so feel better today or balance and revive yourself, and another can say with Reiki or with holistic massage, or, because how do people know what they’re looking for because there’s Osteopathy, and there’s Structural Integration remedial massage and you know people don’t know what it is, where all these things all these modalities are. So you are going to sell the message of the results of your treatment.

KRZYS:                     Message of the result of the treatment and the benefits.

LEORA:                     The benefits of what you offer.

KRZYS:                     So are there any other passwords you can recommend, which we should say or that you shouldn’t say?

LEORA:                     In terms of the strapline, you mean in terms of your selling point?

KRZYS:                     Yeah.

LEORA:                     I don’t think so; I think that’s enough to keep your message. You know sell when you’re selling yourself as we’ve spoken about earlier, we are the business. I think it’s important to or certainly, it seems that it’s more effective to sell what you do as the benefits, you don’t sell Leora the massage practitioner, you sell the benefit of the treatment and you then ask people to tell other people about the benefits of the treat you don’t ask people to refer to you, say Oh I’m so happy that you’re having the benefits of this treatment you know when someone gets off the table and they go oh my God, these treatments are amazing Leora I feel like a different person every time I come here, and then you can say something like, I’m so happy you’ve feel the benefit of coming here, you know if there’s anyone else that you know who can receive  this kind of benefits do let them know I’m here. And, so are you selling the benefit you’re not selling Leora.

KRZYS:                     Selling differently.

LEORA:                     You’re selling the feeling. I think that’s a good important one just to hold.

KRZYS:                     So, let’s move on from the strap line and we move down, what else information or what other things on the leaflet should be or should not?

LEORA:                     Target market. Mention your target, mentioning the benefits is the main selling point and then you can mention your target, which is for myself it’s massage and energy work or body work or Reiki and the other most important thing I guess it’s the buzz word as you were asking just now but that’s target market. So, earlier you mentioned something about putting your leaflets everywhere?

KRZYS:                     Yes, that’s what I did, but that was my marketing strategy, just leave it everywhere.

LEORA:                     Leave it everywhere and hope for the best. Let me put another spin on that for you, and see how you feel about it and hopefully it helps everybody who is listening as well, is Target Marketing, some people say they don’t do it, some people do it, some people find it difficult to get their head around, basically picking a group of people who you want to market your practice to. So, if I wish we could show everybody my flyer, but you can see it from my website  is my massage website it’s very colloquial   and it’s very fluffy and that’s the kind of person I want to attract and I want to attract women, and if I create a flyer that looks like that, then obviously it’s the same as my website and continuity of design, but then a specific person will pick that up and I can also leave in specific places so what happens is your effort into your marketing is specific, and you are not wasting your time trying to appeal to everybody, you would target a specific group and you leave your flyers, and or you go to meet ups for specific groups and specific locations, so for example, like I was, I started to mention when I beard off earlier to the climbing wall people.  That’s a large percentage of the population, people who work out, and people who go in do things like that, so you make a specific flyer that talks about what people, what athletic type of people will experience in their bodies and you say hey I can help you with this, and then you leave that at specific locations so you have for example fifty people pick up that one flyer that really speaks to them.  Rather than having a leaflet that says, oh I do massage and I can help everybody and you leave everywhere, and maybe only five people pick it up. So, it’s about the routine your energy use to one group which will then help you to not waste your time and your money.

KRZYS:                     And, it’s very true don’t waste your time and money, because well as I did print lots of leaflets I leave them everywhere and the grade I was recommended, but I didn’t have much response from them.

LEORA:                     Yeah, exactly and you can try that you know because especially when someone who is starting out it can be difficult to say well here is my target market.

KRZYS:                     Exactly.

LEORA:                     So, you know so yeah go ahead, leave them everywhere, leave untargeted markets leaflets everywhere and see how it works, and then let your practice grow and get some clients in…

KRZYS:                     What I will not advice, I would say don’t leave it everywhere, just leave in the area around where you are.

LEORA:                     Of course! Yeah, of course thank you for clarifying for sure, and hope for the best and go in do interpersonal stuff go and do talks, but what you can try and do then rather is make a talk specific you know as I mentioned earlier is that you can go and do a talk about massage for stress. Don’t go do a talk just about massage, because it’s not going to pull in a group of people. You’re going to talk about a relevant topic, or for example, because I work with illness I contacted one time, very close to the beginning of starting my practice, I went to the hospital in Bath, and I did a talk there for the breast cancer ladies. So that was a targeted group of people, but if you don’t want to target right at the moment to speak to anybody, go networking those are all the free things that you can do, you get some clients in and you start to feel who your drawn to working with or who lands upcoming to you, which is always interesting.

KRZYS:                     Yeah.

LEORA:                     I’m sure you had some of those experiences, or oh I’m treating this group of people now I wonder where that is, and then you can start to shape your marketing into a target market.

KRZYS:                     And, especially when you find out who you want to treat, what you want to specialize in or what you, that’s what is happening to you, will always attract people you know and people let’s say it the other way around, the people will attract only to you for you are attracted to with the sense of the way you work and you are.

LEORA:                     Yes.

KRZYS:                     And, just take you know just a time to find out, but as soon you can find out the idea and even try it so you know let’s say this month I’m spending you know on target and talk those people…

LEORA:                     Yeah.

KRZYS:                     And have a banner and, after the month; so how was it? How did I, did I enjoy it? How the people enjoyed it?

LEORA:                     Yeah, very vast.

KRZYS:                     You know what their benefits from you know from both group, and did that work or did not, the next month try a different part of group of people in age conditions even, so you actually getting practice and find out a lot about this condition. Let’s say you know what for my one month treat everyone with knee injuries, and advice for this so we have a runner cyclist just you know let’s go find this way, and you know for development that’s how I did it just for development actually finding your passion, your target conditions your targeted clients, who actually you actually are helping and you’re passionate about it, because that’s going to make it more effective.

LEORA:                     It makes your business as a whole more effective.

KRZYS:                     For your business buzz as well, you know the people, you know the treatments.

LEORA:                     And the treatments. Yeah, correct for sure working with passion. Also, do your marketing with passion get excited about it, it’s really important, because otherwise, it’s going to feel like a drain and it’s just going to bore you and no one is going to be drawn to picking up your marketing and looking at any of your marketing, because it’s not speaking to anybody.

KRZYS:                     You know and as we said in the beginning, you can get excited about marketing and excited about the business and it’s lots of things in to it and a lot of details, but I always remember you don’t have to always want everything done now, you don’t have to, just start with one thing see how it works, and then you add another thing, it’s just everything you know marketing as always takes time.

LEORA:                     Everything takes.

KRZYS:                     Everything takes time, and even if you have a lot of money and spend straightaway and you build everything, it’s still going to take time to actually start working and you know effective and showing.

LEORA:                     Definitely. You just got to do whatever you do I think just taking one step at a time, even if you’ve got the budget you know just concentrate on getting the website out and then when that’s done take the next step and do the flyer, and then when that’s done do whatever else you want to do, because otherwise what happens is just it’s overwhelming and to come back to the stress.  It’s just overwhelming and stressful and then you want to throw in the towel.

KRZYS:                     And just stopping being excited.

LEORA:                     And you stop being excited.

KRZYS:                     And because we want to be excited.

LEORA:                     We do. We want to be excited about what we do and who we help.

KRZYS:                    Really, really thank you for sharing all of this information and advice.

LEORA:                     My pleasure.

KRZYS:                     The next question I have for you, because lots of our listeners are either just starting up or maybe they’ve just been in the business for a while but they still struggling with you know building their businesses, so if you woke up tomorrow morning and you still possess all the experience and knowledge you currently have, but your business completely disappear, forcing you to start from scratch, what would it be? I think I know what we would come back to.

LEORA:                     Sorry?

KRZYS:                     I think I know what we would come back to, but what would you do?

LEORA:                     Yeah. Well, the irony of that is what we mentioned just so many times now is taking it slow. Taking it slow, just doing it one step at a time, because otherwise, it’s just too much and It takes the pressure off. Everyone is in a different situation right, so if you have to work really hard at it, so you get Sixty (60) clients within six months, because you need to pay your mortgage then that’s different. But I would advise that you know, that just screams burnout to me, and as a practitioner, that is just one thing you can’t have and that is burnout, and so taking it slow…

KRZYS:                     It’s not pretty.

LEORA:                     You said it. It’s horrible for everyone isn’t it? So, taking it slow and actually just reintroduce the word budget there because having a budget will allow you to take it slow. And you know actually, when we spoke about budget earlier, that was only for marketing I didn’t think about mentioning there you need to pay for your room, and for your oils, and for your seats, so that was just a marketing budget we discussed. So if you can get yourself a budget you can take it slow, and you won’t burn out and you will continue to remain excited about what you do.

KRZYS:                     Exactly, just make a list prioritize make it slow And what one step at a time, I’m a big believer now in a list and kind of setting with a stance and goals, like before I haven’t because it’s always for me was always scared to put those things on a paper but I think when we put them they are actually not that scary and you can actually look at them a really different point of view and plan it better, and naturally have this in your head and actually you don’t see them, they’re in your head, but you when you put them onto paper they’re out of your head they’re on a paper and you can play with them in different ways than actually in your head with those stress and worries up there.

LEORA:                     So what you just said is great, I love it. It’s gone from stressing in your head to playing with paper and being excited, and that’s just really important. While you were talking, it made me think about other important things of together without taking it slow, but unfortunately, it’s just disappeared out of my head. Oh yes, get involved with other practitioners, and brainstorm your stuff together especially if you’ve got no budget to come and call someone like myself. Get excited about your marketing together, do your marketing to get it done, so that at home behind your computer trying to bang out words for your websites.

KRZYS:                     Log in on we are full of ideas.

LEORA:                     There you go.

KRZYS:                     I needed to, yeah. Go.

LEORA:                     I love it.

KRZYS:                     Yeah, networking just finding up brainstorming the ideas, the wording you know and learn from the experience of others, what they did, what worked, what not.

LEORA:                     Very important, that is really important and also don’t be scared to try something that didn’t work for them, because for example, someone might say oh I put an ad in that local magazine and it didn’t work, that doesn’t mean that the ad you put in there won’t work, because if you target marketed it or if there’s just a certain type even if you don’t target market it maybe they didn’t do their ad very well or whatever, so try different stuff and don’t be scared to try stuff that has not worked for other people, because you know everyone works in a different location, everyone lives in a different location different things are going to work in different locations for different personalities.

KRZYS:                     For this still coming, you just have to, everyone has to have a piece of you.

LEORA:                     Yeah.

KRZYS:                     So, the next part is all about you, so here we give you a moment to get promotion of our guests, the course is book practice anything you would like to share so we will give you a little bit of the free style time.

LEORA:                      Freestyle, I like it like my massage.

KRZYS:                     Let’s go.

LEORA:                     Okay, well. Importantly one thing that we didn’t manage to talk about in my journey is the amazing opportunity I had to start working with Darien Richard in two thousand and nine (2009), and I did his hands free massage training and I did the two day training and then I did the extended training, and in that extended training I said to him if you ever need an assistant you know where to come to because I feel really passionate that this hands free massage work needs to be spread. And, so I’m spreading that for the first time myself next year at The Bristol College of Massage and Bodywork at the Bristol location, not the Worcester one. Starting in March it’s an eight days training spread over four months, and it’s certificated as well now if you want to you can go through to do a forty-five minute exam consultation and hand in some assessment paperwork case studies etc. You don’t have to but you can, so that starts in March.  And I’m really super excited to be delivering that for the first time, and really honoured that Darien was happy to pass on the reign. Actually, we’ve got a one-day training coming up on the fifth (5th) of September in Bristol one day hands-free as well. And the day before that also in BCMB Bristol is the beginners’ guide to, no; actually it’s the essential Beginners Guide to marketing your practice. That’s a one day that’s a Friday the twenty-nine (29), ten till five thirty (10 – 5:30) in which we can get really excited about learning about marketing and opening those doors to how Marketing can be fun.

KRZYS:                     Letting out those personalities.

LEORA:                     And living out those personalities.

KRZYS:                     Firstly, it’s really congratulations of you know going to course on Hands-free.

LEORA:                     Thank you. I’m, I’m so stoked.

KRZYS:                     You know I haven’t done the course but I have heard. Well I know that diary and you know I learnt, I heard lots really good things from the people done the course and it’s really, really, pratic., you know, really amazing, because you know as we know we tend to use our wrist a lot and that gives us a lots of really good ideas and ways.

LEORA:                     Yeah.

KRZYS:                     So, how we can work and use our body for you know our benefits?

LEORA:                     Yeah it’s a lot, it’s the body use is really important in that, so all those tools from that don’t include your fingers. So all the way down to your arm, elbow, the back of your elbow and especially your body use and your body weight to deliver what I feel is more enjoyable massage. When I have a massage and people poke around with a finger to try and get a knot out it doesn’t feel as enjoyable to me, and as relieving as if someone is using the broad part of their elbow. Sorry, not their elbow the broad part of their forearm close to their elbow, the pressure is more spread and it allows the body to just melt into massage and melt into relaxation, rather than feel like we’re being poked. It’s delicious. (Laughter)

KRZYS:                     And that’s all you can find out on Leora course which we’re going to put all the information in our show notes and under this episode for you. So the next part of we have a Tag a Guest Game, so when we ask you so who would you like to, who you admire and why? And who can you get us a recommendation for upcoming interviews with me? So who inspires you?

LEORA:                    Jay Ruddock and Sheena Harper at the Align Body Clinic they’ve both got different skills. I started seeing Jay when I got into massage so like in two thousand and seven (2007) when I was doing my training or just after that Jay was originally a Rolfer, which is also Structural Integration and he then has moved on to also incorporating osteopathy. And Sheena has, she’s done Sports Massage, she’s done Osteopathy, she also uses some needles, so I think that combination is great because sometimes a muscle just needs a needle instead of a forearm or an elbow. (Laughter) So I think they are basically wizards at what they do and when my body needs a little bit of work, which was just the other day actually, they really help my body to feel amazing.


KRZYS:                     Really, really thank you for sharing that, and thank you for joining me here today. So you gave us a lot of great advice and inspiration, so let’s finish the show with the last piece of advice for Busy Hive listeners and subscribers and we will say goodbye. So if you had just the one thing for our listeners to take out of this episode what would it be?

LEORA:                     Sure. I think it’s going to need be target market; yeah! Target market as scary as it might be, it’s definitely made my massage advertising more effective. But, also my Web Design business because I only work for practitioners, doing websites for practitioners. That’s my target market for my web design business and without that, I don’t think my Web Design business would be as fruitful as it is.

KRZYS:                     And as scary as that can be it’s actually you know when you did that it makes everything so much easier.

LEORA:                     So much easier, no waste of time, no waste of budget, excited about marketing.

KRZYS:                     So how can we connect with you online?

LEORA:                     Oh let me count the ways! (Laughter)

KRZYS:                     Just one, the main one we’re going to put all the details in the show notes but…

LEORA:            that’s the webmistress mass, website, (that’s) that’s the marketing website. (Laughter) We have been speaking for a long time now; my tongue is getting (Yeah) tied. for the hands-free stuff.

KRZYS:                     Okay. Thank you very much for Leora, for joining me here at Busy Hive Podcast and you, our the listeners, interesting in learning a bit more about Leora Marketing Courses or the courses of Hands Free or even you know asking and chatting about building a website or even advice on that. We will put all the links and contact details on our website at and it’s a pleasure to have you on the show and thank you, thank you very much and hopefully we will chat very, very soon.

LEORA:                     Thank you very much for inviting me and thank you for the great chat, and all your wisdom as well that you provided, together. Like a little brainstorm session.

KRZYS:                     Oh yes. (Laughter)

LEORA:                     Thanks so much Krzys.

KRZYS:                     Thank you. Bye for now.

LEORA:                     Bye now.



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